Symbolic FAPT TURN

[Drew]

I just purchased a Hardinge Chnc II with a 10tf. The machine runs great but the fapt is not working right. For starters the material and autofapt file are missing. The manual indicates these files should be shown under the family program files soft key. Nothing shows up. The problem with using the fapt is the menus dont show up on the screen. I can entery data blind and the soft keys change as in correction or back/next page. But nothing I enter shows up on the screen. I dont know if this is related to the missing files or something else. The good news that I have 3 punch tapes that have parameters , fapt parameters and chnc macros. Bad news the machine dosnt have a tape reader. PS my 6m does have a tape reader .
If anyone has seem this and know how to fix it Please let me know.
And is the fapt program stored on the yellow PC cassette.
Thanks Drew

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[stevo1]

I am not going to lie. I don't know crap about the FAPT side on the 10T control. I have done a lot of work on my old 10T control but nothing with FAPT.

I have attached some procedures on initilizing the FAPT side and other things. I don't know if this will help your problem. Make sure you have everything backed up. The PMC data can not be punched out via RS232 so I attached a blank form that I use to write down the data.

The yellow PC cassette that is mounted to the main board is for the ladder logic.

Stevo

[Drew]

Thanks for the reply! I am a little concerned about reseting the FAPT
Are you sure I should try this first?
I havent backed up this machine but will do it before anything else.
Is the PMC the 'pc' side of the control?
Do I just need to backup the nc parameters and PMC. Or is there more?
ThX Drew

[stevo1]

I have had to clear the FAPT a few times before. However it's been many years and I am not 100% positive but I don't think anything else got cleared. As I said before I don't know anything about the FAPT side for programming ect. So I don't know of anything else to try first. Anyone with experience in this area can feel free to jump in.

Your ladder is on the yellow cassett. So you need to get your PMC parameters out. They can not be punched out via RS232 thats why I have attached a blank form for writting these down in my last post. You then should backup all your programs. Make sure you get the 8000&9000 programs. There are parameters that lock these programs and if they are locked they will not be sent out via RS232 when trying to backup the machine. Also get your parameters out through the Service softkey, should be [Service],[Punch],[All]. I don't remember what else you can punch out. You should be able to get tool offsets, work coordinates, variables. When viewing in these areas over arrow until you see punch and read softkeys. If they don't show up then you can not back them up.

These are all the things that I back up just as standard.

Stevo

[gbowne1]

I'm back to working on my 10TF, almost like the one blakemachine has on his Hitachi Seiki HT. I almost am ready to go power on with it.

It has Symbolic FAPT.

The FAPT software is 5502 and 5521. Which seems to be the same as others I have seen posted on here.

I do not have the FAPT parameters. Wish I did. Anyone have some FAPT parameters? Or know how to set them up?

The system is built but not on the machine yet, the machine will be finished before the end of Sept. 2011.

[banflescrum]

gbowne1,

I don't know if its any use to you but we used to have a 15-TF machine, I've still got the parameter backup for it and I've also got the operators manual which lists some of the parameters for Fapt. I presume that the 10TF uses similar parameters.

Let me know if you want any info.

[jdeere4250]

do not reset the nc side parameters, as the fapt may as well be a different country as fat as the cnc is concerned.
It has a seperate battery backup cable, Resetting the cnc has no positive effect on the fapt side , so dont do it.
To reinitialize fapt side is something like this.
Power off.
powerup holding down BS key. go to fapt side , press Aux key, type in CFINT.
This initializes fapt. I have the exact key strokes blow by blow, I will have to dig 'em up.
What you really need is the tapes and a Fanuc PPR tape reader, as a regular Tape reader wont wk. as this stuff is in FANUCedup format. Any if there any thing I can do please let me know.

[gbowne1]

My 10TF is a home brew solution, unlike the OP's Hardinge CHNC.. mine is a brand new custom built machine. The 10TF that is going on it, It's made from eBay purchased parts, as are most of the controls I own.

I have a FANUC reader for the 6MB-2 system. Don't have any tapes for it.

I read all the posts I could on here about the 10's FAPT. And I got the init process down.

As with the machine, the parameter list I built is a custom one.. as with the NC side parameters.

I'm told that the the 15 is similar to the 10/11/12 so the FAPT from a 15 might work with some work.

If this works I will try and get my OT-C

I have the following boards:

A20B-1210-0410 FAPT CPU
A16B-1210-0300 FAPT Memory ?? Interface?
A16B-1310-0301 ACP/PCU (for the 1210-0410 board)
A16B-1310-0480 ACP/Add CAP Memory

Is there a material library, etc?

[fordav11]

I have 20 years experience with FAPT.
I have a FAPT parameter manual here. What do you need?
If anyone has FAPT questions send them along, happy to answer :-)

[gbowne1]

Does not have a AutoFAPT file or Material one.

Found some parameters.. but all is not there.

Yes, the 10TF/TEF parameters might be the same as the 15's.

Not sure.

[fordav11]

you can create the material file yourself using the menu. not FAPT, the other maintenance ones. I forget now, I don't work on 15TTF with FAPT now.
It's in the same place where the tool file is set up. Family Program I think it's called.
Once you set it up save it, from memory something like Output Material File, then type 1,B,@M and it will save the material file as M. Set up your tool file and save it the same way as T. You can check your family program area and it will list your saved FAPT graphic data and you will see a file called M and T.

There are FAPT graphic data parameters to make the tool file and material file autoload at boot. They are listed in Family Program, in System Parameters. MTF is there also but those are the machine parameters that FAPT uses to create the program (like using R instead of I,K or if X is + or - etc), nothing to do with actual FAPT graphic data. you want System Parameters. I can tell you the setting for all of them if needed but a lot of them will default to the right setting and don't need to be changed.

0016 should be set to "M"
0017 should be set to "T"

This is all from memory. If you need the exact sequence or info let me know and I'll check my old manuals.

[gbowne1]

Is it the same for the 10TF/TEF as the 15? I don't have a 15T. Mine is a 10TF. Never quite understood the difference between the TF, TEF & TTF. One for export controls (CE spec.?)

What is in the Material File?

I use a lot of the 4100 & 4300 series Moly/Chromoly steel. A lot of 1018. LP410 Nylon 6/6. Quite a bit of 2024, 6061 and 7075 aluminum. Up to about 3" in diameter.

Family Program seems familiar though.

It's an 8 tool lathe turret, 4MT/5MT tailstock, 8" chuck. Kinda looks a lot like a Okuma LB-10/LB15.

I would like to have the settings for all of them.

Yes I set 0016 to M and 0017 to T

It does have the FAPT graphics.

[fordav11]

TF just means a single turret lathe with FAPT
TTF means Twin Turret with FAPT

The material file just contains surface speeds, depth of cut and feed rates for each type of operation (tool) then for each type of material. You don't really need it. You can set the feed, depth of cut and surface speeds when programming the job in FAPT. It's just a convenience.

Which version is your FAPT? I'm guessing it's System P Model G or something like that? My FAPT parameter manual is for 15TTF but most of it could be similar. But like I said most of them should be defaulted and don't need to be changed unless you have an error or you need to change something specific.

If you put up a pic of the screen of the data you want I'll see if it matches with my data or at least if the format is the same.

[gbowne1]

The material file just contains surface speeds, depth of cut and feed rates for each type of operation (tool) then for each type of material. You don't really need it. You can set the feed, depth of cut and surface speeds when programming the job in FAPT. It's just a convenience.

This will really help me out.

I will look and see what version mine is and take some pics. The 10TF I built just came online about 3 weeks ago. Haven't had much time to play with it.
Just making sure there are no alarms and the axes move properly.

[gbowne1]

Am still working on this FAPT on my 10TF. Everything I have is as I posted above. I have always wanted a step by step tutorial on FAPT Turn.

[Edwin Murch]

Looking for the tool data file ! Got a hardinge CHNC II 10tf control . Even a walk through of meanings of what its asking for . Like RN ,AC,An, ext. Have a book pages missing ! General Numeric 10 tf operator's manual.
Well purchace let me know.
ed.murch@mamcomolding.com
Thanks in advance
Ed

[fordav11]

AC is angle for tool clearance on the leading edge
AN is tip angle (generally 80, 60, 55, 35 etc)
RN is tool nose radius
XN/ZN is for tool nose radius compensation calculations (for right hand tools generally RN = XN = ZN)
- for left hand tools XN is the same and ZN is minus
AS is tool mounting angle (generally -90 for turning tools and 180 for boring bars)

For a standard 80 degree insert and right hand turning tool the data is...
AC 5
AN 80
RN 0.04
XN 0.04
ZN 0.04
AS -90

For 55 degree insert (i.e. DNMG) the only thing that changes is AN=55

For a standard 55 degree insert and right hand boring bar the data is...
AC 87
AN -55
RN 0.031
XN 0.031
ZN 0.031
AS 180


If you have other questions or special tooling requirements just ask.

[mattslay]

Is it possible to add or enable Symbolic FAPT (Conversational) to a Fanuc lathe that did not have it from the factory?

Do you know how much that costs?

I am looking to buy a used CNC machine with a Fanuc control, but the machine does not have Symbolic FAPT on it, and my other 3 Daewoo PUMA lathes already have it, and my team really wants our next (used) machine to have it also.

[jeffhart462]

I just purchased a Hardinge Chnc II with a 10tf. The machine runs great but the fapt is not working right. For starters the material and autofapt file are missing. The manual indicates these files should be shown under the family program files soft key. Nothing shows up. The problem with using the fapt is the menus dont show up on the screen. I can entery data blind and the soft keys change as in correction or back/next page. But nothing I enter shows up on the screen. I dont know if this is related to the missing files or something else. The good news that I have 3 punch tapes that have parameters , fapt parameters and chnc macros. Bad news the machine dosnt have a tape reader. PS my 6m does have a tape reader .
If anyone has seem this and know how to fix it Please let me know.
And is the fapt program stored on the yellow PC cassette.
Thanks Drew

Hi Drew,
I used to work for Fanuc and it is quite common for this to happen?

Power off the machine and power back up againjust as it comes off the NC Screen it will go onto the FAPT screen,
In the bottom soft keys is a red one, it should say AUX bit if it is in Japanese it will still be red RED.
Keep pressing the Red Key unti you get a flashing = at the bottom?
(sometimes it takes 2~ 3 goes to catch it)
if you have the flashing = then type in CFINT then input (CONTROL FAPT INITIALISE)
It will ask you 1 for yes or 0 for no! type in 1 and input
it will then initialise and you will all be back to Fanuc Standard as in the book.
If you are in the UK for a day charge (£750) we come and reset it for you.

Regards

Jeff