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  1. #13
    Member dcoupar's Avatar
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    "The question is: If I DIDN'T give the option parameter info to the customer, would he ever turn around and buy the option from Fanuc? Probably not."

    Dan... IMHO, if the customer wants the option, he should buy it. He's going to make money on it. Just like a seat of AutoCAD, MathCAD, and Fotoshop and so on (yes Guhl, BUY it). It's not shareware, it's not freeware.

    I think the bottom line is this: Paul (Site Owner) said that if we've posted Fanuc or GE Fanuc proprietary information on HIS site to remove it. I assume that this also means that this proprietary stuff shouldn't be posted here in the future, either. End of story.



  2. #14
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    dcoupar:

    You're right. If the end user wants a new option, he SHOULD buy it, but that's not exactly what I was tallking about. Suppose you were hired to fix up an old Fanuc system 5T and the parameters are gone. You've got to not only set all the NON-option parameters, but you've got to know many of the option parameters just to make the darn thing run. Hint: The programmable controller is an option (and if the PC doesn't work, the whole machine is a boat anchor)

    Now, how about a Fanuc 0M-C that lost it's marbles? The customer has a nice file with all the parameters backed up, but the serial port doesn't work because the serial port is an OPTION. You've got to load the option parameter (manually), then set the baudrate/stop bits parameters manually, then get the darn thing talking to your laptop just to be able to load that file. Of course, you could just key all that stuff in by hand ....

    Or how about the Fanuc 6M-B that had it's bubble memory board go out. You get an aftermarket board from Tulip Technologies for a fraction of the cost of a Fanuc board, then load all the parameters that the customer had written down. But hey ... his 4th axis isn't working because somebody added it to the control in 1985 and didn't update the parameter list. Now YOU better have that 4th axis option parameter or your machine is going to be a 3-axis mill forever. (hurry, there's a box full of castings for that nice 4-axis job the customer needs to get out by Friday) ...

    Sure, you can buy these options, but sometimes you'll have to buy them AGAIN, and sometimes you'll have to buy them just because you can't prove that the guy who sold you the machine 5 years ago already bought them. Sometimes, you'll have to buy them and wait 2 weeks for a Fanuc guy to show up (while your customer takes those nice castings elsewhere).

    If Fanuc wants to keep all this information completely private, it needs to provide the services that an end user needs to make things right in an emergency. That would be a comprehensive database with all the options ever installed in every control (by serial number) and a willingness to respond at minimal cost when an old control barfs. As far as I can see, Fanuc is not willing to make that commitment to the end users. Fanuc does provide excellent service (for a price), but there are times when the customer needs more. Some used machines are purchased at auction for less than the cost of a 1-day service call from a Fanuc engineer.



  3. #15
    Member dcoupar's Avatar
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    Points taken.

    MY point was, they (option parameters) shouldn't be posted on this site, period (per the owner of this site). Once an option parameter is up here, then even those who don't legally own it can have it. And I for one don't want to see Fanuc, or GE Fanuc, or anyone else shut this site down because of this.



  4. #16
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    I agree that this forum should not contain any option parameter information. I'll be careful to not post anything proprietary in the future. This is a valuable forum. Let's keep it that way.



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    I agree too. Bad Karma.



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    only option parameters (9000's) are protected by Fanuc (Threading cycles, rigid tapping etc not physical hardware such as tape readers.

    if you want something in a store.....you pay for it, options have to be paid for.



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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by philserveng View Post
    only option parameters (9000's) are protected by Fanuc
    ....Also the manuals in PDF format, AFAIK.

    Whilst I do not condone the selling of supposedly proprietary knowledge, and Fanuc also frowns on anyone giving it away.
    But I am of the opinion that if I purchased a machine and I have not signed any license agreement etc, what is to stop me modifying the machine to my hearts content, I know some owners that have messed around with the 900/9000 par. until they get some other option, this is for their own personal use.
    I think Fanuc is to blame here with the earlier machines in as much as putting all the options in the machine, but the only ones turned on were the ones ordered!
    It is a method that is asking for trouble.
    It is like me buying a book, which is proprietary, and I rewrite the last chapter, just for my own personal pleasure without attempting to re-sell it.
    Am I guilty of copyright infringement.
    Also similar to FTA Free-to Air television, which is beamed into the ether and into my personal living space, but I am not supposed to modify this signal if I happen to receive it and happens to be scrambled by the transmitter.
    If the originator does not want it to be decoded by me, then the method used should be modification proof.
    My spin anyway.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


  8. #20
    Member dcoupar's Avatar
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    As far as loading all the options and charging you to turn them on: If I'm not mistaken, Haas still does it that way (but you need a "code" to unlock the option), Yasnac does it that way, AFAIK, many CAM and DNC companies do it that way. It's strictly a cost-saving thing, I think.

    In the old days you could get in and change the option parameters, but the control builders wised up and password protected them. I've also heard of cases where the user changed the wrong option parameter and wiped 'em all out... a sly move on the control builder's part to prevent unauthorized activation maybe?

    IMHO, it's like "demo" software downloads; go ahead and try them out, but if you want to make money (use the full functionality) you gotta pay the piper. I know Haas went to this method of "temporary" licensing so you could try the options before you buy. They probably want you to get accustomed to the convenience of the option, then it'll be a no-brainer when it comes time to pony-up.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    I think Fanuc is to blame here with the earlier machines in as much as putting all the options in the machine, but the only ones turned on were the ones ordered!
    It is a method that is asking for trouble.

    Al.
    Yup.

    Hey what does that button do?

    I don't know........ push it!

    Parameter 902 is NOT locked. I can change it as I please. I don't have the manual that came with the machine........I hear tell that the parameters where in it?

    Maybe Fanuc should have a help page on their website. It is just easy to ask Dave on a site like this.........how do I turn turbo on?

    adamant

    Last edited by adamant; 05-31-2008 at 10:33 AM. Reason: spelled button wrong


  10. #22
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamant View Post
    .....how do I turn turbo on?

    adamant
    Whats Turbo?
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    Whats Turbo?
    Al.

    Secret stuff.



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    Default Fanuc little world !!

    dear sir
    with respect to fanuc situation i must added , they must note in this time in net world you can not keep this kind of information as SECRET ! all we do to others just help them to solv problems as very very week after sale service of Fanuc world wide ,.. dont you believe that ? ask customers . always they advise to change Pcbs nothing more and they dont know how customer must be find and haow many time they need to find it ,..

    please advice Fanuc to see Siemens and Heidenhain web site they release all technical information for all .

    i dont know what can i say ,..it just pitty . fanuc little world to beleive customers .

    at last if anyone needs this kind of information please do not hesitate to send request to my private emaile .



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