Fanuc 10m Issues

[Chips17]

Hello all

I bought an old machine that was built in 1984 specifically for drilling holes, facing machine basses, ect. Support for the machine is non-existent. When I got it on the floor, all of the parameters had been lost. I managed to find all of the original parameters on an old roll of paper in one of the cabinets. Put them in the control and now I can power it up. Since then, I have found many more issues.

1) The mpg handwheel does not work. I replaced it with a new one and still have no use of it. Checked voltage and it has 4.95vdc going to the mpg. Not sure if it is a parameter issue or what.

2) DC servo drives (1 in particular) make a lot, and I mean a lot of noise. X axis is the worst. Z is not so bad. Have had servo errors since day 1 on the X axis. Haven't played too much with it because Z is now stuck in overtravel.

3) When I turn on the spindle, all of the drives kick out. I'm pretty sure that's a power issue but still trying to get the basic functions working.

4) Homing position not being remembered in the control. None of the soft limits are being retained by the control. After I home he machine, if I G28 X0Y0Z0, it will overtravel in one or more axis.

Any subject matter experts that can offer some assistance, that would be great. Right now I have a boat anchor that I've already spent a chunk of money on that isn't producing for me.

Thanks
Dave

[Bdrangdo]

Your handwheel should typically have 4 connections, 5v, 0v, A, and B. with power on measure the voltage between A and 0v and turn the wheel slowly, the voltage should fluctuate between 0.5v and 4v it is hard to see unless you turn the handle slowly. Then test between B and 0v it should be the same.
The noise could be coming from a number of sources, you will need to remove the servos and try to turn the screws by hand a see how smoothly they turn. Be careful with the "Z" axis it may have a brake on it. Check to see if it is counterbalanced and anticipate what will happen when the motor is removed. I don't know what this machine is or how big it is, some machines have a hole in the pillar to allow a shaft to go through the counterbalance to stop the "Z" axis moving.
far.
Are the encoders absolute ?. If so there could be batteries in them which store the homing data.

[memoryman]

Have the options (parameters 0-6 and 300 up) been entered?

[Chips17]

Your handwheel should typically have 4 connections, 5v, 0v, A, and B. with power on measure the voltage between A and 0v and turn the wheel slowly, the voltage should fluctuate between 0.5v and 4v it is hard to see unless you turn the handle slowly. Then test between B and 0v it should be the same.
The noise could be coming from a number of sources, you will need to remove the servos and try to turn the screws by hand a see how smoothly they turn. Be careful with the "Z" axis it may have a brake on it. Check to see if it is counterbalanced and anticipate what will happen when the motor is removed. I don't know what this machine is or how big it is, some machines have a hole in the pillar to allow a shaft to go through the counterbalance to stop the "Z" axis moving.
far.
Are the encoders absolute ?. If so there could be batteries in them which store the homing data.

I can move all axis by hand easily. I have not had a chance to check the voltage between A and 0V yet. Like I said, this is the second hand wheel I have put in with no change.

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[Chips17]

All parameters have been added from 0 to 90**.

Have the options (parameters 0-6 and 300 up) been entered?

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[Chips17]

Your handwheel should typically have 4 connections, 5v, 0v, A, and B. with power on measure the voltage between A and 0v and turn the wheel slowly, the voltage should fluctuate between 0.5v and 4v it is hard to see unless you turn the handle slowly. Then test between B and 0v it should be the same.
The noise could be coming from a number of sources, you will need to remove the servos and try to turn the screws by hand a see how smoothly they turn. Be careful with the "Z" axis it may have a brake on it. Check to see if it is counterbalanced and anticipate what will happen when the motor is removed. I don't know what this machine is or how big it is, some machines have a hole in the pillar to allow a shaft to go through the counterbalance to stop the "Z" axis moving.
far.
Are the encoders absolute ?. If so there could be batteries in them which store the homing data.

I will have to check on the servos. All I know is they are DC servos and attached is a pic of the drives.

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[cjfisher]

Chips,

How are you powering this machine? Are you running this on a Rotary Phase converter? Another member here had a similar problem and it turned out that the rotary phase converter was half the size it needed to be. I don't think he had problems with servo noise - though I think it would be possible to get noise if you are really sagging the incoming power. What voltage are you running (240v or 208v)? Is the spindle amp a Fugi Frenic per chance? As for being stuck in over travel - does your operator panel have a 2nd RLS button? If so you can push that while using the pulse wheel to bring the z off the over travel dog (I think it jog mode that you need to be in - Not rapid).

CJ

[Chips17]

Chips,

How are you powering this machine? Are you running this on a Rotary Phase converter? Another member here had a similar problem and it turned out that the rotary phase converter was half the size it needed to be. I don't think he had problems with servo noise - though I think it would be possible to get noise if you are really sagging the incoming power. What voltage are you running (240v or 208v)? Is the spindle amp a Fugi Frenic per chance? As for being stuck in over travel - does your operator panel have a 2nd RLS button? If so you can push that while using the pulse wheel to bring the z off the over travel dog (I think it jog mode that you need to be in - Not rapid).

CJ

CJ

The machine is being powered by a RPC. It's a 15 hp model being fed by 6 gauge at 240ish volts. All 3 phases are balanced within 5%. The machine is also fed with 6 gauge from the panel. The spindle hp on the machine is 5 hp. My 7 hp engine lathe starts and runs all speed ranges without issue. Back to the mill spindle, I cannot tell if it has an amp or not. It looks to me like it's direct wired to a contactor which may be part of the issue relating to the drives kicking out. The panel only has one OT release on it. In handle with OT release pushed in, the servos kick in but the handwheel does not do anything in any axis. The panel pic is attached.

Thanks

Chips

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[cjfisher]

Chips,

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/fanuc/273710-cnc.html <-- this is the post I was thinking about. Look at post #10. I'm willing to bet a few doughnuts that your rotary phase converter is too small. Brass includes some calculations on how to size the converter. I'll bet you will need a 20hp... possibly even a 25hp unit to run your mill. What does the "Release" button do? You may have to manually (aka mechanically) back the Z axis down. I know on my 11m when I over travel it will alarm and only allow movement (via the "handle" mode and pulse wheel) in the direction away from the over travel. Once I think I'm off I can hit the reset button and be on my way.

Charles

[Chips17]

Chips,

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/fanuc/273710-cnc.html <-- this is the post I was thinking about. Look at post #10. I'm willing to bet a few doughnuts that your rotary phase converter is too small. Brass includes some calculations on how to size the converter. I'll bet you will need a 20hp... possibly even a 25hp unit to run your mill. What does the "Release" button do? You may have to manually (aka mechanically) back the Z axis down. I know on my 11m when I over travel it will alarm and only allow movement (via the "handle" mode and pulse wheel) in the direction away from the over travel. Once I think I'm off I can hit the reset button and be on my way.

Charles

CJ

That was one of the first things I looked at when I started having issues. I'm sure the voltage drop when the motor starts is the culprit. My intent was to upgrade my phase converter to a digital unit equivalent to a 40hp RPC. I run 2 and sometimes 3 of my manual machines at the same time (converted a small manual lathe to cnc). Sometimes I have 2-3 people starting/stopping machines at random. My feeling is my feed lines to the RPC are currently too small which is probably the reason for the voltage drop. The generated leg draws 2.6 amps at the machine just powered up. I cannot check the amps when the spindle motor starts. My bet is my feeder wires need to be around 2 gauge to the RPC and 4 gauge to the machine to compensate for voltage drop.

The release button is the overtravel release. Turn the knob to handwheel then press and hold release to use the haadwheel. Unfortunately the handwheel is not working. The voltage going to the handwheel is 4.95 volts, well within the limits but there is no motion in any axis regardless what is selected. Even when the machine isn't on overtravel, the handwheel does not work. That was why i asked about it possibly relating to a parameter setting. When I get back to the shop tomorrow I will be checking the voltages between A and 0V as well as B and 0V. I am currently 200+ miles from the shop on business.

Chips

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[memoryman]

Manual Handle Feed is an option; is parameter 9105 bit 2 should be a 'one'.

[Chips17]

Manual Handle Feed is an option; is parameter 9105 bit 2 should be a 'one'.

Thank you

I will check that when I get to the shop.

Chips

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[cjfisher]

Chips,

I don't have one myself (I have managed to keep (so far) my 480v 3ph hookup to my garage)... an electronic phase converter (like a phase perfect)? My buddy has one and is pleased with it. It doesn't have the idle load that rotary phase converters require. I think he has a 20 hp rated unit and with no equipment on it pulls .25 amps. It would reduce your incoming power requirements a bit. Also does a much better job at maintaining the correct voltage on the generated leg. The only downside is the upfront cost.

CJ

update... just reread your post... you are already considering the digital phase converter. Please update the post if you get one.

[Chips17]

Chips,

I don't have one myself (I have managed to keep (so far) my 480v 3ph hookup to my garage)... an electronic phase converter (like a phase perfect)? My buddy has one and is pleased with it. It doesn't have the idle load that rotary phase converters require. I think he has a 20 hp rated unit and with no equipment on it pulls .25 amps. It would reduce your incoming power requirements a bit. Also does a much better job at maintaining the correct voltage on the generated leg. The only downside is the upfront cost.

CJ

update... just reread your post... you are already considering the digital phase converter. Please update the post if you get one.

CJ

The digital phase converter is on the list for the future. Right now my concern is to make the machine run. Where I am, 3-phase is expensive to get and I am not ready to pay the tens of thousands of dollars to have the 3-phase service ran to my shop. It will be cheaper to move the shop The unit I am looking at is the PT-380. Actually 2 of them (future planning). It's a 95 amp unit with a 400 amp momentary surge. The standby seemed high at 400 watts but in the scheme of things, it's not bad. The plan is to separate power for the manual machines from the cnc's in hopes of keeping the machine side power as clean as possible since right now, the phase converter goes to a main panel and everything is wired with individual breakers from there, just like if it were a 3-phase service.

First step is to re-wire the current phase converter is though I was putting in the digital to limit the voltage drop, then deal with the rest of it later. Machine needs to get fixed and then start making chips before I decide on going with the phase converter upgrade. Thus far, it's the only cnc that requires 3-phase. Everything else is running on single phase. Before long, I will need to upgrade my service because I am running out of power and fast.

Chips

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[Chips17]

Manual Handle Feed is an option; is parameter 9105 bit 2 should be a 'one'.

It is a 0. Thanks for pointing that out. I don't have time at the moment to go through the IPL and enter it back in again. As a matter of fact, 9102, 9105, 9108 and 9113 are wrong or missing 1s...

Chips

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[Chips17]

Fix 2 problems, find another. Now I can't send/receive any of the parameters. I ended up hand jamming in all of the parameters to get this far. Any ideas? Cable is pinned out like it's supposed to and I verified that with a multi meter. If I have the input/output device set to 1 I get a parameter setting error. Nothing suggested on any forum works.

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[cjfisher]

Chips,

Some of the 10m were configured without the dripfeed/dnc capabilities. Read through this: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/fanuc...ml#post1945206 Tonight I'll spin up my 11m and check the settings. There are 2 maybe 3 serial ports located on different boards in the machine.

CJ

[Chips17]

CJ

I will have to read though that and see if I can pull anything out of that 5 pages of info. I fixed the power issue. Ended up rewiring the whole shop phase converter and put in a new control box. That helped a ton. 2 gauge on the single phase side and 6 gauge for everything else. Sadly, I can only run that cnc mill when its going. I also have a bad contactor for the spindle. When the contactor doesn't make good contact, it kicks out a servo drive. Also any other motor starting in the shop will kick out a servo drive on the generated leg. Right now I get a SV006 and SV013 on the Y axis because that generated leg is on that axis right now. It will not stay on that axis if I move that leg to say L2 or L3 in the control. Anyway, when I try to send or receive any program I get a write protect error. Maybe sometime this year I will get this thing to make some chips...

Chips

[cjfisher]

Chips,

Write protect... does the machine have a write enable/write protect key on the panel? Or around the side?

CJ

[Chips17]

Chips,

Write protect... does the machine have a write enable/write protect key on the panel? Or around the side?

CJ

I looked around but couldn't find anything. I've tried in edit mode, mdi, punch and read, e-stop on and off.... When I try to punch, it just sits there and eventually times out. I'm beginning to see why this thing was mothballed for so long. I will look inside the cabinet to see if there is a wire loose on something also tomorrow as well as recheck all the parameters. By the time I'm done with this, I should have them all memorized.

Chips

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