Fadal peck tap ?

[machine time]

Has anyone out there used a "peck tap" cycle on a Fadal? is it possible?
1998 and 2005 fadal's with cnc 88 control, ridgid tap, format 2

Thanks in advance for any info

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[Neal]

Machine time--
Peck tapping is easy. just a progamming trick and not a canned cycle. It only ecceftive in rigid tapping. Follow this format:

This is for Format 1:
G0G90G40G80G17E1X?Y?M5
H1Z1.0
G84.1G99R0+.2F800.Q.050Z-.25
R0+.2Z-.35
R0+.2Z-.45
R0+.2Z-.5
G0Z1.
G80X0Y0Z0H0

Try it out and watch what happens. Obviously you need to add some codes as tis is not a complete routine.

Neal

[TRIMI]

dont put G84.1
G98.G84.R-.9Z-1.25F15.S245. this for 3/8 16 and F12. S185. 1/2 13

THERES ANOTHER ONE I can remember

[machine time]

Thanks for the reply, I had really hoped to do this in format 2, it is all I have used for many years (old dog). If I just program multiple G84.1 cycles with different z depths will the tap start back in the thread at the same place? I will do some test cuts Monday but it would be nice to start with some good info. I am cutting a 4-48 double lead thread in titaniun with a solid holder (not spring loaded) I have about 9000 holes to drill and tap!

[mike852]

I have done this opperation many times the tap will follow the previous thread. The only problem with going back into the hole is that the top of the hole will open up and the nogo gage will start to go. With that many holes you may want to invest in a thread mill. I have started to use these more in tough mat'l and they work great.

[Neal]

If you do not use the G84.1 code, you are NOT using the rigid tap function. The line for format 2 would be:

This is for Format 2:
G0G90G40G80G17E1X?Y?M5
H1Z1.0
G84.1G99R0+.2F50.S1000Z-.25
R0+.2Z-.35
R0+.2Z-.45
R0+.2Z-.5
G0Z1.
G80X0Y0Z0H0

Use this format to do peck tapping.

Neal

[David Michael]

Three things to remember:
1) Accuracy is a function of speed, go slower at first then try and speed it up.
2) The tuning of the spindle servo system (drive and SETP) and the Z axis will affect the accuracy of the servo tracking both in and out.
3) Lubrication, you can't beat a good Tapmatic fluid when re-entering a thread.

[Crying Freeman]

Hi Guys, res-erecting an old thread here but just googled this and this post came up. I was interested in peck tapping and have been running Fadal's for 20 years odd now but all of the above examples I can't get to work. The machine just pops up with one alarm or another! Has anyone got a cycle they've run and know that works? I'm running format 2.
At the mo I'm just running a fixed PCD cycle a few times over with different depths on the G84.1 line
Thanks in advance
Tim

[carbidecraters]

Hi Guys, res-erecting an old thread here but just googled this and this post came up. I was interested in peck tapping and have been running Fadal's for 20 years odd now but all of the above examples I can't get to work. The machine just pops up with one alarm or another! Has anyone got a cycle they've run and know that works? I'm running format 2.
At the mo I'm just running a fixed PCD cycle a few times over with different depths on the G84.1 line
Thanks in advance
Tim

Thats because all 3 examples are flawed

T1M6
G0x0y0
Z.2H6M8
G84.1 G99 Z-1. R.2 Q.1 S480 F20.
G80

The line with the G84.1 has a 'Q' in it which designates a distance travelled before retracting to the 'R' number. The 'R' number cannot be bigger than the Z move in the previous line. This program would work for a 1/4-20. Most Fadal CNCs from 1992-2007 will rigid tap up to 1000rpm just fine.

[mflux_gamblej]

I am suspicous here of peck tapping.. it seems to me that it must just be approximate. I know that my tapped holes have different starting angles, and i have rigid tapping. i suspect that if you try and peck tap, the machine's servo will be foreced to follow the existing hole, but not perfectly, which may explain why on one of the previous replies someone complained that the tapped hole opens near the top enough to not pass the no go gauge.

just use form taps. no chip, can do thousands of holes as long as you don't bottom it out...

and guess what, with rigid tapping you can push the tap to about 10 to 15 thou above he bottom of the full drill diameter if you 'really' need to. that's a gnat's ass.

[ryanbohm]

Thats because all 3 examples are flawed

T1M6
G0x0y0
Z.2H6M8
G84.1 G99 Z-1. R.2 Q.1 S480 F20.
G80

The line with the G84.1 has a 'Q' in it which designates a distance travelled before retracting to the 'R' number. The 'R' number cannot be bigger than the Z move in the previous line. This program would work for a 1/4-20. Most Fadal CNCs from 1992-2007 will rigid tap up to 1000rpm just fine.

Thanks to your example code, I've been able to track down some really odd behavior on my 1997 6030. Tapping wasn't working correctly as produced from the CAM software I used. I tried your example here and it worked (I wasn't looking for peck tapping, just for a functional example of tapping to try to figure out what the problem was). Turns out, without the Q parameter, the machine throws an error on the tapping line. With the parameter, it does the tapping routine fine ... *but* it doesn't do peck tapping!

I thought maybe it was the lack of the G84.2 code which it sounds like stopped being required at about this machine year. If I don't include the peck tapping parameter but do include the G84.2 code before G84.1, then it won't fault but it doesn't tap correctly - just spins at the starting point.

Anyone seen anything like this?

[mflux_gamblej]

Thanks to your example code, I've been able to track down some really odd behavior on my 1997 6030. Tapping wasn't working correctly as produced from the CAM software I used. I tried your example here and it worked (I wasn't looking for peck tapping, just for a functional example of tapping to try to figure out what the problem was). Turns out, without the Q parameter, the machine throws an error on the tapping line. With the parameter, it does the tapping routine fine ... *but* it doesn't do peck tapping!

I thought maybe it was the lack of the G84.2 code which it sounds like stopped being required at about this machine year. If I don't include the peck tapping parameter but do include the G84.2 code before G84.1, then it won't fault but it doesn't tap correctly - just spins at the starting point.

Anyone seen anything like this?

RTFM is easy for Fadal because they're online for 'free' as PDF files. here's an example rigid tap code though:

N8 G17 G40 G80 G00

N9 T16 M06 *1/4-20 Form Tap*
N10 *D-drill3-2*
N11 S500.1 M05 M90
N12 G00 E2 G90 X0.25 Y-1.32 A0.
N13 G84.2
N14 G43 H16 Z1.5 M07
N15 G98 G84.1 X0.25 Y-1.32 Z0.375 R0.9125 S500.1 F25.
N16 X1.25 Y-1.32
N17 G80

N18 M09
N19 M05 M90
N20 G00 G90
N21 G53 Z0
N22 M6 T16
N23 E0 X0 Y0 A0
N24 S.1
N25 M30
%

[ryanbohm]

RTFM is easy for Fadal because they're online for 'free' as PDF files. here's an example rigid tap code though:

N8 G17 G40 G80 G00

N9 T16 M06 *1/4-20 Form Tap*
N10 *D-drill3-2*
N11 S500.1 M05 M90
N12 G00 E2 G90 X0.25 Y-1.32 A0.
N13 G84.2
N14 G43 H16 Z1.5 M07
N15 G98 G84.1 X0.25 Y-1.32 Z0.375 R0.9125 S500.1 F25.
N16 X1.25 Y-1.32
N17 G80

N18 M09
N19 M05 M90
N20 G00 G90
N21 G53 Z0
N22 M6 T16
N23 E0 X0 Y0 A0
N24 S.1
N25 M30
%

Not to sound ungrateful, but I'm not sure you read my post. I don't need a tapping example. I have that. What I don't have is an explanation for why tapping works with the Q value and doesn't without it.

[mflux_gamblej]

If the code I posted doesn't run for you, then you probably have some kind of hardware problem. does your spindle speed oscillate at high RPM? might need an encoder replacement. Also, I have had ridiculous things happen to my tapping programs when run from memory if you use AFF or other gain modification codes because the control reads ahead in the buffer and applies 'future' code early so for example a call for AFF or another gain mod near the top of your program can affect a tapping code near the end of the program as the buffer looks ahead even beyond the end of the code and back into the start of the code. great eh. i assume u r on format 2 also. not sure why there'd be a Q for tapping.

[ryanbohm]

Not a hardware problem - just an amateur problem. I recently received and installed this machine. The last Fadal machine I used was set up for format 2 ... have never had to worry about format 1 vs format 2 (have seen reference to it, but didn't even know before what it was). The CAM post processor I use produces format 2 code. This new machine came set for format 1.

I was testing the tapping in air - not verifying that the proper tap was being made. Interestingly, adding the Q.something makes it *look* like it's working. The Q parameter in format 2 is for peck tapping.

Anyways, it's working now that I set the machine to format 2 (using setp and choosing option 2). Wouldn't surprise me if I'm the only dummy that ever has this problem, but if someone in the future encounters it, maybe they'll find this thread. Thanks mflux_gamblej - your help was/is much appreciated.