Another spindle orientation problem


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  1. #1

    Default Another spindle orientation problem

    I have a 4020A with that will not orient the spindle. The spindle reotates and the cam lock fires and releases. I am not sure thie machine has the right settigs in setp. It has a 7500 rpm spindle but the settings on the door say it should be 10k.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    We need to know where to start troubleshooting so did it just start doing this, or is it a new to you machine? Have you lost any settings lately?
    Usually, if the spindle is turning too fast to orientate then it skips past it. Lower the number in Setp for Orientation Factor.
    If that doesn't do it, then we can move to diags and see if it's seeing it.



  3. #3

    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    It was purchased used. The current owner said he had to replace a card and input the parameters. But if you look at the door it says it should be a 10k spindle and the pulley looks to be from a 7500. I will check the orientation
    factor tonight.



  4. #4

    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    Spindle orientation factor set to three. Watch video for better explanation of problem please.





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    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    go into diags and see if the orientation sensor is working. Do this by entering command DS for Display Switches. There you can see if the orientation sensor changes states. ORIENSP Switch closes when the spindle is at the proper angle for orientation.



  6. #6

    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    The switch does not switch when the spindle is rotated. The gap between the pulley and the switch is .011". The switch side wires are blue, brown, black and the machine side is red, black, clear.



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    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    There is an pneumatic plunger that locks into the divot on the spindle. You should have 80-90 psi air pressure for it to work. When it aligns with the notch in the spindle, the hall effect sensor should be lined up with the magnet. If they aren't lined up then the pulley wasn't installed properly. I honestly haven't seen a pulley setup like that on a 4020 but, I haven't seen a 4020A either. The pulley and spindle shaft have alignment marks, and there are several. You're supposed to use the proper ones for the machine you're working on. This is what performs the alignment I mentioned above.

    If your getting no signal at all, even when you align the sensor and magnet by hand then check that circuit. The hall effect sensors have three wires. One for 5vdc, one for ground, and one for the signal. The signal will be about 5vdc until a magnet is over it, then it will become active, and the signal will be about zero. Red is 5 vdc, Black is ground. White is the sensor signal.



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    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    From the video, It looks like your spindle plunger pops in place and the VFD quits turning, but it looks like the timing is slightly off. I can hear the solenoid release like it passed the sensor.

    By the way, if you google Fadal maintenance manuals there are numerous sites that have them online for free. The troubleshooting section and the spindle section has most of what you need. Spindle section talks about alignment marks. Tool Changer section talks about Orientation. Electrical section show sensor wiring.



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    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    Be sure to let the forum know what you found so it can help others down the road.



  10. #10

    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    I have tried 2 new switches. Same issue, the spindle rotates and then the pin comes in and releases. This machine does have rigid taping option. removed the air line for the pin and held the pulley in place under the magnet. the solenoid fires and immediacy releases. Instantly causing orientation fault alarm.



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    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    I know you said you checked but you have to separate the issue to find out if it's mechanical or electrical.
    Using DS - Display switches will tell you if the CPU even see's the input from orientation sensor.

    "ORIENSP Switch closes when the spindle is at the proper angle for orientation."

    Command 3 will tell you if the output is turned on for the solenoid and if it stays on. If it says it's ON, B0 = 0 but the solenoid only comes on for a second and turns off, check for voltage to the solenoid. If it comes and goes, and B0 stays on, then check the wiring or the solid state relay.

    COMMAND3 - Each binary bit commands one solid state relay. A value of 0 turns the relay on. B0 is the rightmost bit.

    B0= Orientation
    B1= ATC Slide motor ON
    B2= ATC slide motor REVERSE
    B2= ATC slide motor REVERSE
    B3= Way lube pump
    B4= Limit switch override
    B5= M60/M61
    B6= Axis amplifier ON/OFF
    B7= Spindle lubricator ON

    OUTPUT and RELAY
    Orientation Relay is K23. Contact schematic is below. 120vac is on TB1-27 and 28 when the orientation plunger is ON. F19 is the fuse.
    Another spindle orientation problem-orientation-jpg

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Another spindle orientation problem-orientation-jpg  


  12. #12

    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    I never see it change states on the DS screen. It must however be seen because it will rotate the spindle until the magnetic is under the switch and stop the spindle then fire the pin. As soon at as the pin fires it releases and I get orientation*fault.



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    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    Try it without the M19 and see if the input is read. That way it won't fire the solenoid.



  14. #14

    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    It does not change on the ds screen.



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    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    Then there is a problem. If I type DI then DS, if I rotate the spindle it will change the Spindle Orientation to 01 and stay there unless I move the spindle past the sensor, then it goes back to 00.
    If I do a M19, then orientation is a 01 solid, and Command 3 is B6 which if you type into the windows calculator in hex, the last binary bit on the right should be 0, stating the output for the solenoid is on.

    I just did this on my machine. So you'r not getting a steady signal from the magnet or the sensor or there is another issue. Do you know how to test the sensor and a volt meter?

    >>If your getting no signal at all, even when you align the sensor and magnet by hand then check that circuit. The hall effect sensors have three wires. One for 5vdc, one for ground, and one for the signal. The signal will be about 5vdc until a magnet is over it, then it will become active, and the signal will be about zero. Red is 5 vdc, Black is ground. White is the sensor signal.

    Voltmeter on DC volts, make sure there is 5 vdc between red and black all the time. Then check the signal by putting the VOM positive lead on the white, and negative lead on the black. It should switch between 0 volts and 5 volts when you move the magnet under the sensor. It should stay at that level until you move the magnet.






  16. #16

    Default IT"S FIXED

    So after doing everything I could think of and following all recommendations. I still had the same problem. So, decided to start from scratch. IT"S FIXED I found that the J10 plug was moved up a row. It looked like it was plugged in just one row to high. plugged J10 in correctly and tool changes are good. Thanks for all the help!

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Another spindle orientation problem-screenshot-2023-06-14-110956-jpg  


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    Default Re: Another spindle orientation problem

    That would definitely do it!



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swatsonMPM View Post
    So after doing everything I could think of and following all recommendations. I still had the same problem. So, decided to start from scratch. IT"S FIXED I found that the J10 plug was moved up a row. It looked like it was plugged in just one row to high. plugged J10 in correctly and tool changes are good. Thanks for all the help!
    Thank you for the help. I just had the same exact problem. I plugged J10 in one row or pins low. It’s a little hard to see in there so close to the floor. Thanks again for saving me.



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Another spindle orientation problem

Another spindle orientation problem