Need Help! No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??


Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    51
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    Hi, I have a problem with a 4525HT ... the spindle won't orientate. The first thing I tried was a new spindle motor encoder ... no luck there. I have done all the usual checks ... wiring continuity , DI - DS to see if the spindle switch is working etc etc which all appears to be fine.
    I then saw a reply on the forum with a guy who cured the same problem with a vector drive "auto tune" and thought it would be worth a check. The drive in the machine is an AMC vector drive and following the tune procedure in the manual ... the first test is on the accel/decel pots.
    It says to test from plug 6/pin 5 to a test point below each pot with the machine unpowered ...where I should measure "20k ohms for 2.2 secs". When I test I have 94.6k ohms on both test points and it doesn't vary ... just sits at that resistance ??
    Am I doing this right ? Do I need to switch DIP 1 to test to do this or something ? Screwing the pot/s does change resistance a little but thats about it.

    Any help/comments appreciated as I have no tech within 1000 miles ...

    Similar Threads:


  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1530
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    When you say it doesn't orientate exactly what does it do. It makes a difference. Does the spindle turn slow and click and keep turning?



  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    51
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    Yes the locking arm is hammering on the indent but spindle keeps turning. Another thing its (not) doing is ... if you turn the spindle on and then command stop ... it just keeps running.



  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1530
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    I think fixing the issue to stop when told is the first thing to fix then that may fix your orientation since it's not "stopping"

    I was going to point you to SetP page 1, Spindle Orientation. The lower the number the slower the spindle turns and the better chance of it locking.
    When my VFD was replaced from a AMC to a Baldor, the Orientation Factor had to be reduced to about half what it was.

    Again, my first sentence although doesn't tell you what to fix is probably why orientations not working.



  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    51
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    Should have mentioned I had been into SetP and played with the parameters already ... with no change.
    You say you had an AMC drive .... does that test procedure sound about right by you ?



  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    51
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    Ok some updates that might shed so light on whats going on ...

    Regarding the vector drive accel/decel test .... I figured out I was using plug 4/pin 5 as its test reference point, instead of the (required) plug 6/pin 5 (strange way they have labeled the plug layout) ... so my mistake. The values were very close to what is required but fine tuned them anyway to 2.2k.
    The next item in the test/settings procedure is to install a jumper plug into the P2 socket and set the Loop Gain pot. Supposed to turn up the pot till you get a hum at the motor ... but regardless of where that pot was set there was no hum
    The Offset and Ref Gain voltages were set without problems ... so just not able to set Loop Gain
    The end result of it all was zero .... the spindle still doesn't stop when commanded and it does not orientate.
    It was noted that the spindle is running in the reverse direction after being told to stop .... and on control board (21102) both LEDS DS7 and DS9 are lit (spindle reverse and spindle forward indicators). Don't know if that is normal or not ??



  7. #7
    Member machinehop5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    824
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    ...what happen when you did Test #3
    https://www.fadalcnc.com/media/pdf/t..._and_Motor.pdf

    3) TEST/OFFSET:Rigid Tap Machines:In MDI enter “G84.2”.
    Adjust Offset for 0 VDC at P2 pins 4 and 6 (Ref In+ and Gnd).

    Non Rigid Tap Machines:Remove P2 connector and install jumper plug (FOR and REV to COM).
    Adjust Offset until spindle stops.Remove jumper plug and install P2 connector.



  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    51
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    That part went fine ... it was sitting very close anyway, from memory 0.1V .... but adjusted to 0v with a minute change.

    Been fiddling again ... and I notice that if rpm's are at 199rpm or less, the spindle will actually stop when its told to ..... 200rpm or more and it won't ?? When doing the DI/DS check, you could only see the change in switch state when moving the spindle slowly by hand. I put this down to perhaps the screen display updating was too slow to actually "see" the change and it changed back to open state ? Magnet strength is reasonable but maybe the hall effect is weak ??



  9. #9
    Member machinehop5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    824
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Cfin View Post
    That part went fine ... it was sitting very close anyway, from memory 0.1V .... but adjusted to 0v with a minute change.

    Been fiddling again ... and I notice that if rpm's are at 199rpm or less, the spindle will actually stop when its told to ..... 200rpm or more and it won't ?? When doing the DI/DS check, you could only see the change in switch state when moving the spindle slowly by hand. I put this down to perhaps the screen display updating was too slow to actually "see" the change and it changed back to open state ? Magnet strength is reasonable but maybe the hall effect is weak ??
    ...very odd. Is your 220Vac 3 Phase input power correct? I would think the cnc would show an Alarm if its single phasing.



  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    51
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    We are 415V 3 phase but machine is 220V. I managed to source a 3 phase transformer to drop it back to 230V or so. I notice there is a 5V deference between phases at the moment ... two are the same, one is 5V less.
    You think its single phasing ??



  11. #11
    Member machinehop5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    824
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    .

    Last edited by machinehop5; 12-03-2020 at 05:37 AM. Reason: double


  12. #12
    Member machinehop5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    824
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    ...should measure Line to Line, but if you measured Line to Ground 5volts is good. Have you tested the Output side of the Spindle Drive voltages? try different speeds

    ...Also need to think back when your problem 1st started.....what did the machine do before replacing the encoder?



  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    51
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    Will measure some output side voltages tomorrow.

    The machine mainly does engine block machining and is setup very similar to an RMC outfit. At the time the problem started it was half way through machining an engine block and had just finished cutting the decks (read - light intermittent facing) and next was boring it .... but the spindle wouldn't orientate (using G76 ... orientate, side shift and rapid out) so that halted the program.
    Was advised by a Fadal parts suppler that the encoder was the most likely cause so got one couriered out .... but it didn't cure the problem so started digging a little deeper.
    Getting no "hum" from the motor doing the Loop Gain test concerns me ..... but really need some definitive answer on the problem before throwing money at replacement parts .... especially expensive ones as I can't return them.



  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    51
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    Ok ..some further information/possible clues -

    The output voltage from the spindle drive controller doesn't vary ... regardless of what speed its set at. Its always around 96 volts, and I guess that means speed is frequency or current controlled.

    When instructed to stop spindle ... the spindle slows but does not stop unless rpm's are low .... however whether its in hi or lo range also has an effect on what that actual rpm "trigger" point is. That appears to indicate whatever its doing is related to the Hall Effect switch (or something similar it is using for a reference/home/speed/direction) ??
    The only way you can stop the spindle turning is to turn the spindle speed knob on the operator panel way down (near off but not quite there)

    I have experimented with hi/lo gearing and its effects when commanding M19.
    If its in hi range... the spindle will just keep hammering on the orientation arm bearing till it times out or you stop it using the spindle speed knob
    If its in low range .... the spindle moves very slowly (looking for the orientation switch ?) and if its starting point was a long from the switch point .... it will overload the spindle motor before it gets to orientation position. If I manually turn the spindle so its "start" point is nearer the orientation position and do an M19 .... when it gets to its orientation point/position, the orientation arm/lock tries to engage but simultaneously, the spindle speeds up to "normal" speed and it overruns its orientation point ...

    Looking at the overall picture it really looks like it might be the hall switch .... even though it appears to test ok (under DI DS). It maybe weak signal wise and/or perhaps there is "noise" on its signal line ... which might explain why its moving slowly when looking for its orientate position ??

    Unless someone can shed some new light on the problem, I think I should get a new switch flown out and see what happens .... ??



  15. #15
    Member machinehop5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    824
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    ...just a thought....exposured dip switches to age can cause problems..try flipping on off on off on all Dip switches and cable plugs on the AMC unit...double check SETP for your model too



  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    51
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

    Will try the DIP switches .... already had the cable plugs in/out multiple times ... SETP has been played with, both up and down .... is now back to "book value". I am thinking that if that did work/help .... changing it is probably a band aid for whatever the real problem is ?
    Everything looks pristine inside the AMC box, looks like brand new inside .... not even any dust in there ... but who knows.

    The whole deal appears to be its "looking" for some feedback .... as the spindle does slow when told to stop ... but misses its "home" signal or something as the last step of stopping. If I had some sort of flow chart for the AMC operation, I could perhaps verify that, but have read elsewhere of people trying to get documentation for them from both AMC and Fadal service providers ..... but they just passed the buck between themselves and neither would come to the party.

    Just had a thought .... one thing I didn't check when testing the wiring from encoder and hall switch was whether any outputs were on ground or shield wires as well ... just went pin to pin. Its possible that something has rubbed thru somewhere and I have a signal to ground/shield short which would give a weak or no signal ? Worth a check anyway ...

    Thank you for your input ... much appreciated



Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??

No spindle orientation - Vector drive tuning ??