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  1. #13
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    Default Re: fadal will not power up

    Just to update, I reseated several connections, and poof, two times I have powered up with no signs of problems. So either my inverter is on its way out and picking when it wants to work, or a connection was working its way loose. Lets hope for the latter. thanks guys!



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    Default Re: fadal will not power up

    Sir, I have a hard time believing the inverter can cause a boot up problem honestly. Hook up your inverter if not already and power up the machine. Press the green power button. If the machine will now power up, check the incoming voltage to the drive. You should get 230 VAC three phase to the drive. Don't spend time worrying about the PhasePerfect digital phase converter. They are simple to size. We are a dealer for them. Match the inverter HP to the spindle hp of your machine and you are good. No upsizing like the rotary cousin.

    If the voltage to the drive is good, check to be sure the regen resistors are not getting hot. That being said, let's check the low voltage power supply and make sure you have good voltage at all pins; 5, +/-12. If not, let's find out why. Check the secondary of your transformer and make sure you have the 120 needed for the amp chassis input and the 120VAC needed for the low voltage power supply. Check the output of your transformer that goes to the inverter. Let's make sure the voltage is good. It sounds like it is dead with the drive hooked up and okay when it is disconnected. I need you to double check this again and make sure you are making a good correlation between the inverter input voltage and your machine not booting. It doesn't add up.

    FadalCNC Tech Support



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    Default Re: fadal will not power up

    Yeah, I spoke too soon. When I posted it was fine, that was just to get it to power up, never tried to run it. Before I could not get the fans to get to speed, machine light was dim and could not get the controller to come up. Now I don't have that red flickering light on the external brake for the spindle, but now my spindle will not power on. I can home my machine, and jog my axis, but will get a c fault when doing a spindle command. Inverter does not look like it is powering on when I look at it in back. There is a light on, but it did that also when I tried to run it on single phase when I first got it.

    edit:
    checked power at the inverter:
    10v 237v 229v
    power coming in to switch
    226v
    330v
    430v(weird, even more so since the PP states 225/226/227v)
    after the fuses
    10v 227v 227v
    Pulled the middle fuses and ohmed each one and sure enough, one is open. Guess it is time for a new fuse.....

    Last edited by billsnogo; 04-22-2019 at 06:04 PM.


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    Default Re: fadal will not power up

    Looks like you're going VFD Shopping....I saw this while looking around for your Mits freqrol z300 manual
    https://www.automationdirect.com/adc..._vac)/gs3-2015
    Price looks great but, get what you pay for sometimes and must Interface to your Fadal what ever you buy.

    or maybe "The Rock"
    https://www.fadalcnc.com/index.php/inv-0096.html
    But..its priceee

    Last edited by machinehop5; 04-22-2019 at 10:30 PM. Reason: added link


  5. #17
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    Default Re: fadal will not power up

    Waaaaaa! I installed the new fuse, threw the switch and POP! So depressed, I had really hoped it was just a bad fuse. I wish I had setup video so I could see exactly where the spark came from, it looked to be on right side of the transformer where there is a reset switch where the three L lines connect. I checked and the same fuse popped. L2 must have a short on it somewhere and I do not know the next best step. I don't want something dangerous and I don't want to keep buying these expensive fuses, so anyone have some good diagnostic step to start at?



  6. #18
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    Default Re: fadal will not power up

    I bought this phase perfect new because it was more expensive, but wanted to do it right and do it only once......
    The digital readout states 227/228/229v output, 227 input
    I had taken a handfull of readouts including shutting off and restarting the digital phase converter
    result where VERY weird.
    1st
    L1-L2 280V
    L1-L3 227V
    L2-L3 235V
    2ND
    L1-L2 285-305V fluctuating
    L1-L3 235V
    L2-L3 235V
    3rd
    L1-L2 290-305V fluctuating
    L1-L3 235V
    L2-L3 235V
    4th (restarted converter)L1-L2 280V
    L1-L2 228V
    L1-L3 405-450V fluctuating
    L2-L3 586-670V fluctuating
    5th (restarted again)
    L1-L2 230V
    L1-L3 411-450V fluctuating
    L2-L3 600-700V! fluctuating

    I used my cheap harbor freight multi-meter because my nice one leads will not fit in the area I can access, but think you were right on and my more expensive than spindle inverter phase converter is having trouble. I will need to take readings at my knife switch before the buck boost transformer, coming into the phase converter, and leaving the phase converter before I call them. It is either 2 or three years old with at max 500 hours......crap

    thanks again :/

    oh, and it looks like the sparks came from my 1170 power surge protection board killing it I assume....



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    Default Re: fadal will not power up

    1.Verify that no input power is connected to the unit by turning the input disconnect to OFF, then lock and tag it.2.Open the front cover to gain access to the wiring terminals. See the Section2, Connecting to Field Wiring Terminals, for a drawing illustrating the wiring terminals.3.Connect input power to the unit from an appropriate single-phase circuit. See the Section2, Input Power Source Considerations,for additional information.4.Before energizing the input power, measure the source voltage. Phase-to-phase voltage must be within the input range of 187-260VAC, and the phase-to-ground voltage should be half this value.For installations with one 240V power wire and a neutral, the 240Vwire must be installed on L1.

    Double check the above steps from the PP manual http://www.phasetechnologies.com/dow...ual%20V2.0.pdf



  8. #20
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    Default Re: fadal will not power up

    Quote Originally Posted by ASIGuy View Post
    Sir, I have a hard time believing the inverter can cause a boot up problem honestly. Hook up your inverter if not already and power up the machine. Press the green power button. If the machine will now power up, check the incoming voltage to the drive. You should get 230 VAC three phase to the drive. Don't spend time worrying about the PhasePerfect digital phase converter. They are simple to size. We are a dealer for them. Match the inverter HP to the spindle hp of your machine and you are good. No upsizing like the rotary cousin.

    If the voltage to the drive is good, check to be sure the regen resistors are not getting hot. That being said, let's check the low voltage power supply and make sure you have good voltage at all pins; 5, +/-12. If not, let's find out why. Check the secondary of your transformer and make sure you have the 120 needed for the amp chassis input and the 120VAC needed for the low voltage power supply. Check the output of your transformer that goes to the inverter. Let's make sure the voltage is good. It sounds like it is dead with the drive hooked up and okay when it is disconnected. I need you to double check this again and make sure you are making a good correlation between the inverter input voltage and your machine not booting. It doesn't add up.

    FadalCNC Tech Support
    Then I am not sure what would cause it. I finally was able to squeeze my probes for my good multi-meter in the square d box on the machine, and it show steady 227-229v between all three legs. I kept testing with my cheap meter and it looked fine until after 3 times testing it finally showed 400v fluctuating so I hooked up my good meter and it still ready just fine at 228v, SO it looks like all those other reading were bunk.

    So to update everyone on current situation so hopefully I can get some more great help.
    #1
    When this all started I would throw the knife switch on the box, and before I hit the green button I would hear ticking and see the red led flashing in unison on the glentek spindle external brake. When this happened it would not allow the machine to power up when hitting the green button. The light in the machine would be dim and the fans did not sound like they were up to full speed. This has happened on and off since I have had the machine, but usually it would work if I turned it on and off again.
    #2
    When I unhooked the three leads on the transformer going to the spindle inverter it would turn the light on the spindle brake green instead of red, the fans came up to full speed, and the light in the machine was at full brightness.
    #3
    I hooked up the the power to the spindle inverter again, tried turning it on and same as #1 happened again. Tried powering on and off and just would not come up.
    #4
    Checked to make sure all the wires at the spindle inverter, external brake, and transformer were solid, removed the fuse on the spindle brake and reinstalled.
    #5
    With the power to the spindle inverter still hooked up I powered it up and green light on the spindle inverter, fans at full speed, full light on work light in machine. I pushed the green button and the screen came on and it worked. I had THOUGHT everything had been fine but did not try to turn on the spindle.
    #6
    Tried the machine a couple days later so I could run some parts. Tried to warm up the machine but during Cold Start instead of saying just "a axis fault" (don't have my fourth hooked up) it stated c axis fault also, but it always just shoots that up while doing a CS and goes on. I gave it a spindle command and it faulted out. Spindle inverter had not power on. Checked for power on all three legs and the main fuse on L2 had blown.
    #7
    Hoping the fuse had been on it's way out and causing the issue I bought another, installed, and threw the switch. BANG! Flash came out the back on the rear cabinet. One of the Varistors on the surge suppressor board 1170 blew up, and that same fuse blew again. Now when power is applied NOTHING happens, maybe because of the surge suppressor blowing?
    #8
    checked power coming in with my cheap meter and kept getting weird readings leading me to think it was my phase converter. Today hooked up my good multimeter and power is just fine.

    Now what do I do for step #9? I am afraid to replace the fuse and surge suppressor just to have it blow again. Not cheap..... So how do I test at this point without just blowing things up?

    Do note that the power supply is less than a year old.



  9. #21
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    Default Re: fadal will not power up

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    If you disconnect power from the inverter and the machine powers up, then unfortunately I think you have found the problem. The inverter is dead or dieing. Disconnect the 3 power wires from the spindle inverter and try it again. If the machine powers up, you have found the problem. The ''heating element'' (regen resistor) is directly connected to the inverter.
    something to add JD's Post.....WITH POWER OFF to Machine....check with your Ohm meter (VOM) for shorts to ground on the VFD LineIN Terminals any reading of zero is a dead short



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    Default Re: fadal will not power up

    Quote Originally Posted by machinehop5 View Post
    something to add JD's Post.....WITH POWER OFF to Machine....check with your Ohm meter (VOM) for shorts to ground on the VFD LineIN Terminals any reading of zero is a dead short
    All three Inverter LineIN terminals show some resistance between them and ground. I checked incoming power again and all three lines are between 223 and 226 today. The varistor on the surge suppressor board that blew is connected to L2 which is also the main switch fuse that blew.

    anyone have another blown board that I can steel the varistor off of?

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails fadal will not power up-fadal-1170-board-jpg   fadal will not power up-fadal-1170-board2-jpg  


  11. #23
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    Default Re: fadal will not power up

    Ok, you checked the PP but, need to check your Freqrol Unit ....with POWER OFF and disconnected for any dead shorts. Something blew the 1170...need to find out before replacement. I see someone else had a Thread about the parts you need https://www.cnczone.com/forums/fadal...rotectors.html

    and here too https://www.cnczone.com/forums/fadal...-1170-2-a.html



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    Default Re: fadal will not power up

    Quote Originally Posted by machinehop5 View Post
    Ok, you checked the PP but, need to check your Freqrol Unit ....with POWER OFF and disconnected for any dead shorts. Something blew the 1170...need to find out before replacement. I see someone else had a Thread about the parts you need https://www.cnczone.com/forums/fadal...rotectors.html

    and here too https://www.cnczone.com/forums/fadal...-1170-2-a.html
    But how do you find dead shorts if you have the inverter grounded will it not always show resistance through any of the line connections and ground? Am I supposed to disconnect the ground from the inverter and then test? I am missing something here, just not great at electrical trouble shooting, kind of slow on the uptake. thanks for the link, really want to save the board and just replace the varistor if possible.

    thanks again all for any constructive criticism and ideas, really do appreciate it



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