Hi feed milling or heavy cutting with a Fadal


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Thread: Hi feed milling or heavy cutting with a Fadal

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    Default Hi feed milling or heavy cutting with a Fadal

    I have been looking into possibly upgrading to a newer machine (4020 or 4020HT). One of things that I am concerned with, is what the machine can handle when cutting steel. With the current machine I run an Iscar T490 2” 5 insert cutter at .400 doc and .800-.900 woc @24-30ipm on 4340 for 30-45min. per cycle. This is on an old open bed 50 taper machine that I only use on a part time bases. This moves a lot of material but a newer 50 taper is out of my budget.

    I am assuming that the Fadal would not be able to make cuts like that. Would the spindle stall or just not ridged enough. What about half the depth of cut?

    I have been crunching the numbers on a Tungaloy hi feed mill and from what I can tell, in a perfect world I could cut the time in half. Again would the machine be able to run a 2” .100 doc .900 woc @ 235ipm. I would assume at this rate, it would stall the machine.


    What are the biggest cuts you have taken with your machine?


    Thanks for any input.

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    Default Re: Hi feed milling or heavy cutting with a Fadal

    I've ran a 2" 5 insert (sandvik R390) at 0.100 deep and 80 IPM in steel, full width. Tried going 0.125 and stalled spindle, actually got a low voltage alarm on the inverter and im running from phase converter so you may get even more with real power. Machine handled it fairly well, just ran out of power. This is a 94 4020 with the standard 10 hp spindle.

    Your only at 7.68 - 10.8 cubic inchs per minute on your old machine. Those numbers should be fairly easy on a fadal, the cut I mentioned would be 16. You obviously wont have the rigidity of the 50 taper so you may have to take shallower, faster cuts or even HSM with an endmill instead of inserts, but you should be able to get those numbers I would think.



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    Default Re: Hi feed milling or heavy cutting with a Fadal

    I do about 80% aluminum machining on our two Fadals, but sometimes need to machine tougher steels.
    Since we have CAT40 taper spindles, and they aren't "BigPlus" dual contact holders, the spindle can't handle real heavy cuts. The HT machines with CAT50 can handle some serious cuts, but not the belt driven CAT40 machines.
    I am able to compensate by using fed mill holders for larger metal removal. Also plunge mills can remove metal fast and all of the load require is lineal, rather than axial. Iscar has some nice feed mills and plunge mills available.
    https://www.iscar.com/Ecatalog/produ...STYP=M&lang=EN

    Kevin



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    Default Re: Hi feed milling or heavy cutting with a Fadal

    This is a video of an Iscar Feedmill cutting 3 - 1" thick A36 HRS plates clamped together. The maximum depth of cut with these inserts is only about .020" or .030" but since you can feed really fast is makes up for the excess number of passes you need to take. The actual cutting force required is minimal, so it's ideal for light duty machines like Fadals and Haas mills.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/13aW...ew?usp=sharing

    Iscar feed mill - 1500 rpms 250 ipm (probably more like. 150 with Fadal feed override parameters)



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    Default Re: Hi feed milling or heavy cutting with a Fadal

    mmurray70

    What spindle do you have in your machine 7500 rpm or 10,000 rpm? I know that the 10k spindle has two speed belts which would give more torque down low.
    Has anybody ever seen a HP and torque curve for these machines.

    To me it seams that the Hi Feed mill would be the better route, You could tailor the doc. and ipm. to keep your spindle load in check. But still keep your MRR up.

    We have a bridge mill at work that runs a 6" Tungaloy Hi Feed mill and they have run out of power trying to push it to the max feed rate and that's with a 50 hp motor!! It's pretty cool watching the chips fly on that machine.



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    Default Re: Hi feed milling or heavy cutting with a Fadal

    Quote Originally Posted by 69owb View Post
    mmurray70

    What spindle do you have in your machine 7500 rpm or 10,000 rpm? I know that the 10k spindle has two speed belts which would give more torque down low.
    Has anybody ever seen a HP and torque curve for these machines.

    To me it seams that the Hi Feed mill would be the better route, You could tailor the doc. and ipm. to keep your spindle load in check. But still keep your MRR up.

    We have a bridge mill at work that runs a 6" Tungaloy Hi Feed mill and they have run out of power trying to push it to the max feed rate and that's with a 50 hp motor!! It's pretty cool watching the chips fly on that machine.
    Mine is the 10,000 rpm spindle with high/low range, that cut was in low range at around 1600 rpm. I really like the sandvik R390 cutters in steel. Id give them a try, start with recommended feed and speed and just keep going deeper until it starts to chatter or overload the machine. I was probably a little too high on the feed in that cut, should have went slightly slower and deeper, but it did work. I heard a tooling guy once say that the high feed mills were hard on spindles, but he may have just been trying to push his brand of tools.

    There doesnt seem to be any torque curves available for fadals, there were a bunch of different motors and drives used over the years so it would probably all vary anyway. The power curve is far from linear, big drop in power in my machine after 6500 rpm (or 1600 in low range). Theres a nice thread about it on the practical machinist VFD forum that i started a few weeks ago, but this forum wont let me link to it.



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    Default Re: Hi feed milling or heavy cutting with a Fadal

    Ditto on the HSM. I got rid of all my insert milling for chromoly steel and use small endmills at full depth cuts. What took 4 hours with an insert mill now takes me 45 minutes on my old 1997 Fadal.



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Hi feed milling or heavy cutting with a Fadal

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