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  1. #21
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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    A normal cnc machine control can not do anything that a ventilator can do and would be dangerous for the patient to even think it could, I build CNC controls and have been in the medical industry and know people that have worked for the companies that make ventilators, tkevan is correct it's not even close to what is used to control a ventilator

    Your thoughts are in the right place in helping but this is not going to help

    Dyson has just built one that can be mass produced and it has been rejected at this point

    James Dyson designed a new ventilator in 10 days. He's making 15,000 for the coronavirus outbreak

    Alok Sharma, the UK business minister, said Friday that ventilators made by Dyson and other suppliers will need to meet regulatory requirements before being used by the National Health Service.
    I hear Dyson have said it'll likely be 6 months before a design of thiers gets passed in the UK so that's that for them I reckon.



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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    I hear Dyson have said it'll likely be 6 months before a design of thiers gets passed in the UK so that's that for them I reckon.
    Black market will use / sell them if they have the accessories to go with them

    Yes correct the problem is not only the machines it is all the tubing valves and masks that are also required so the accessories that are needed to go with a machine to make it usable are a problem as well, and that will depend if it is invasive or not invasive as to what is required for each person being treated

    A basic machine itself could be built around a high quality PLC it could be programed to do the most basic of breathing requirements, but could not be used for intensive care, this is the part that most people don't understand

    So in the USA GM has started manufacturing parts for one company Ventec nothing they make will have to be passed, Ventec will be making all the parts that are already approved so any manufacture could be doing the same they just need to team up with a ventilator manufacture and make all the none critical parts mostly Injection molded and extruded parts are needed and stands Etc

    If I had the molds required even for just one part I could have my molding machines running 24hrs a day as they can run unattended

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    The u.k. had more than 2 months to prepare for this!
    All they did was faff about with this 'creating herd immunity' policy, wanting to infect 60% of the population with 'mild' symptoms.
    Only 12-13 days ago apparently when they finally realised this kills people.

    Those science / medical advisors of ours need SACKING and their knighthoods / titles STRIPPING!!!.

    The world is looking upon us as if to say we are the biggest bunch of stupid idiots on the planet. We stood a good chance here and blew it.



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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    The u.k. had more than 2 months to prepare for this!
    All they did was faff about with this 'creating herd immunity' policy, wanting to infect 60% of the population with 'mild' symptoms.
    Only 12-13 days ago apparently when they finally realised this kills people.

    Those science / medical advisors of ours need SACKING and their knighthoods / titles STRIPPING!!!.

    The world is looking upon us as if to say we are the biggest bunch of stupid idiots on the planet. We stood a good chance here and blew it.
    I think it has been almost the same everywhere US as well Germany seems to have a handle on it

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    This is happening because the giant car company Ford, Toyota, Mercedes they stop making car and give the concern to make a ventilator.



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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    No it could not you are repeating yourself, just basic knowledge you say then go to it and show everyone how to build one, talk is of what can be done does not get it done, so take some action instead of wasting your time here


    Ventec is working with GM and GM are almost up speed, GM will make parts that support the building of a ventilators

    There are more than just ventilators that are needed, if you want one so bad go to Ebay there you can buy one

    Most of all we would love to see what kind of franken machine you come up with
    Wow, off the rails because you lack the ability to understand your CNC is a programmable robot. This post is for anyone with the necessary brain cells in Italy to see they have an option to get a ventilator up and running in a life or death situation. Not for someone that thinks that you should buy it on ebay or all the other scenarios where ventilators are, or may be available in the future.

    ....

    Last edited by burs; 03-30-2020 at 04:33 AM. Reason: a few inpolite sentences deleted.


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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    I guess it might be a bit difficult to wheel a CNC mill into an intensive care facility. Not to mention that a Windows based PC would be about the last system I would want to use for any critical life saving device.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by taxslave View Post
    You're obviously dealing with limited knowledge on this topic, yet you say it can't be done. It can, you should be ashamed of yourself for attempting to thwart a viable option merely because you alone can't understand. This could save a life. You need to take a course in robotics.

    The challenge is up to you now, show us what you can come up with,( No more talk ) and see how far you can get with your Franken machine with now your CNC control or your Robotic control, I will give you a heads up neither control will work to control a Ventilator good luck [/U]

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    My thoughts as well, someone who talks and thinks like this is clueless as to what is required to run a Ventilator
    I can sort of see how you can use say Mach3 to run bellows using an axis movement on a loop and F code as timing but....
    I'm guessing it would be difficult to run all the relays etc needed for the valves / regulators etc for the correct oxygen supply at the same time.

    I prob sound thick to you but that's my thinking on it.

    I reckon you could CPR bag someone efficiently using axis movement operating a mechanism to squeeze / release it but that alone is no way sufficient.



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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    My thoughts as well, someone who talks and thinks like this is clueless as to what is required to run a Ventilator
    someone had to say it . An attempt to think out of the box is one thing , slamming people because they can't agree with foolishness is another .

    Besides , everyone knows the cnc's will be better served administering hands free vaccine shots , once a vaccine is available . This will help health care workers keep a safe distance from patients



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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    someone had to say it . An attempt to think out of the box is one thing , slamming people because they can't agree with foolishness is another .

    Besides , everyone knows the cnc's will be better served administering hands free vaccine shots , once a vaccine is available . This will help health care workers keep a safe distance from patients
    Yes but you still don't need a CNC machine control to do that operation either, an air cylinder a solenoid and a button for the operator to push that is standing behind a glass window

    A CNC machine is for making parts that could service the medical industry and really the only thing it could do to help

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    I've read some hair brained crap in my life but your flat out nuts
    Sorry you lack the knowledge to understand this conversation. Education is key. Like I said before, you'd really benefit from a robotics course. Function, code, some mechanical.



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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    I can sort of see how you can use say Mach3 to run bellows using an axis movement on a loop and F code as timing but....
    I'm guessing it would be difficult to run all the relays etc needed for the valves / regulators etc for the correct oxygen supply at the same time.

    I prob sound thick to you but that's my thinking on it.

    I reckon you could CPR bag someone efficiently using axis movement operating a mechanism to squeeze / release it but that alone is no way sufficient.
    Mach3 would be a very bad choice, even to try would be a disaster, no CNC control of any kind would be suitable, a CPR bag is not what is required for life support in this case

    Here is a basic list of what the requirement's are, ( Note this is Basic ) are to run a Ventilator do your home work before you posting and have an idea of what is involved

    Input
    Pneumatic
    Electric
    AC
    DC (battery)
    Power conversion and transmission
    External compressor
    Internal compressor
    Output control valves
    Control scheme
    Control circuit
    Mechanical
    Pneumatic Fluidic
    Electric
    Electronic
    Control variables
    Pressure
    Volume
    Time
    Phase variables
    Trigger
    Target
    Cycle
    Baseline
    Modes of ventilation
    Control variable
    Breath sequence
    Targeting schemes

    Output
    Pressure waveforms
    Rectangular
    Exponential
    Sinusoidal
    Oscillating
    Volume waveforms
    Ascending ramp
    Sinusoidal
    Flow waveforms
    Rectangular
    Ascending ramp
    Descending ramp
    Sinusoidal
    Alarms
    Input power alarms
    Loss of electric power
    Loss of pneumatic power
    Control circuit alarms
    General systems failure
    Incompatible ventilator settings
    Warnings (e.g., inverse inspiratory-to-expiratory timing ratio)
    Output alarms (high/low conditions)
    Pressure
    Volume
    Flow
    Time
    Frequency
    Inspiratory time
    Expiratory time
    Inspired gas
    Temperature
    FIO2

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by taxslave View Post
    Sorry you lack the knowledge to understand this conversation. Education is key. Like I said before, you'd really benefit from a robotics course. Function, code, some mechanical.
    No you lack the knowledge to know what a Ventilator requires to operate, so sorry no CNC or Robotic Function code is going to help in any way to run a Ventilator

    So now you have gone from CNC Controls to Robotics, what do you want to know about either subject and I will give you some lessons on the subject and coding in any way you choose Macros included, which no matter how the program is written would be suitable to run a Ventilator to help save someone's life

    So Taxslave have you started to compile your program we want to see it Talk is cheap action is what we want to see

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by taxslave View Post
    Sorry you lack the knowledge to understand this conversation. Education is key. Like I said before, you'd really benefit from a robotics course. Function, code, some mechanical.

    What do you know of my education , my cnc background or knowledge .

    As far as conversation goes this is an argument on your part and all your doing is putting other people down for not agreeing with your idiocy . To put it simple you're a fool and a crazy one at that .

    But ,
    since your apparent gain of superior knowledge is far beyond that of us paupers , then show us how it's done and add some pictures of your elaborate setup so that us simple folk can understand further into your brilliance .
    Until then shove your head in the sand .



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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    until you show a example your full of horse**** .
    In the meantime , while your trying to justify a use for your machinery I've got my machines doing exactly what they are intended for , making parts and making money .
    Which is exactly why your content at your level of understanding. Even if I showed you, how could you possibly understand, lol. You'd still be whining. Where you got the idea I was trying to justify a use for my machinery, further highlights your total discombobulation within this conversation. Too funny actually.
    FYI, I've got four machines working on my day off. Very busy, lots of parts, work is never a problem if you know whats going on.
    Trust me, put in the effort and take some robotics classes, You'll be rewarded if you can pass.



  17. #37
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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Taxslave,

    Mactec54 gave a pretty good list of basic requirements for a ventilator. So my question to you is how you are going to integrate all of the needed analog inputs into a CNC controller which is for the most part a digital input only device? The digital input only is not true in all cases, but is for the most part.

    Quite frankly, from Mac's description, a modern automotive ECM could probably be adapted. But better would be generic industrial controller, preferably military, aerospace, or medical rated.

    And before you accuse me of having no experience in the field, I have about 40 years of systems integration, industrial programming, CNC machine tool systems development, and machine design experience, including some medical but nothing involving critical care. Admittedly, I have no experience building or programming ventilators.

    I also have to say that Mactec54 and I rarely agree on anything, but in this case we are in agreement...... A CNC machine tool could not be readily adapted for use as a ventilator.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Taxslave,

    Mactec54 gave a pretty good list of basic requirements for a ventilator. So my question to you is how you are going to integrate all of the needed analog inputs into a CNC controller which is for the most part a digital input only device? The digital input only is not true in all cases, but is for the most part.

    Quite frankly, from Mac's description, a modern automotive ECM could probably be adapted. But better would be generic industrial controller, preferably military, aerospace, or medical rated.

    And before you accuse me of having no experience in the field, I have about 40 years of systems integration, industrial programming, CNC machine tool systems development, and machine design experience, including some medical but nothing involving critical care. Admittedly, I have no experience building or programming ventilators.

    I also have to say that Mactec54 and I rarely agree on anything, but in this case we are in agreement...... A CNC machine tool could not be readily adapted for use as a ventilator.
    Then you shouldn't have a problem here. Your absolutely correct about other controllers being adaptable though they require a computer to talk to them. You'd have to write similar programming of course, anyplace real time intervention is required from any sensor, you could utilize much the same program as the alarm intervention path, modified of course.More ways exist. No different than what a manufacturing robot does when it runs out of parts or can't any longer torque to spec. This is where windows is nice. Very similar to making a semi complicated app. Again, emergency situation, not trying to make an approved device to market.
    Even though it wouldn't be near as sophisticated as what I'm talking about here, you could easily program any mill to push the air bulb similar to a handheld ventilator any way it needs to be pushed and eliminate a person having to do it. Many machines could mimic that. I was surprised to find the simplest setting on a ventilator mimics this hand squeezed device, evidently the mode required for most covid patients. I just saw this on tv a half hour ago. Ontario has around a thousand of these hand operated ventilators due to arrive next week in case they run short of regular ventilators. That pretty much kicks the " sophisticated device " claim to the curb. Even though a sensor ventilator can be copied. We don't have to, any apprentice could write the code for a variety of cnc machinery to eliminate the need for a person. I guess in regards to Ontarios scenario. Ventilators are indeed everywhere.



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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    So many machines and so much knowledge being talked about and you fellows are helping humanity by bickering on an online forum?



  20. #40
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    Default Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    It's nice to see that the community is exchanging ideas on whether it would be possible to make a contribution and help in the current crisis.

    But it would be nice if everyone could keep in mind to stay polite in the discussion, thank you



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