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View Poll Results: Do you like global warming?

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Thread: Global Warming Poll

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinw View Post
    .... my childish suspicion of politicians and those who shout in their ears loudest.....Martin
    I am not entirely sure this is childish .

    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Geof View Post
    I am not entirely sure this is childish .
    Childish? Childish?

    Too long ago to remember about that...

    Best wishes

    Martin



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    Dear Geof and Steve,

    I'm still curious about cloud albedo, and in-coming and out-going radiation .

    Geof said a few posts ago that deserts have huge diurnal temperature swings. This is clearly observable. Would I be right in saying that this is due to the a lack of water at ground level which cannot possibly form significant clouds above the desert, despite huge levels of solar radiation? I think so.

    Now, suppose you go to the Alps or Rockies for some skiing.

    All around are heaps of snow, and the Sun beats down all day. OK, the air temperature is low, but you don't feel it because the Sun is radiating to you and being massively reflected by the snow.

    Why are the nights so cold and cloudless? There is plenty of wet stuff lying around (albiet in a solid phase) for some water vapour to be formed by the day-time solar input, but the night skies tend to be clear. Is it simply that the ground albedo chucks all the Sun's effort into outer space? Does altitude feature in the behaviour of H2O in these circumstances?

    I have a mountain to climb.

    Best wishes

    Martin



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    martin; You seem to be developing a tendency to answer your own questions . But your ascribing the lack of clouds over deserts to the lack of ground moisture is a horse before cart way of looking at things.

    Most water vapor, which may become cloud and then rain or snow, arrives with the wind. The source of most water vapor is the sea although downwind of lakes and in some cases forests the atmospheric water content is elevated and cloud formation may be enhanced from these sources.

    To see why a desert is a desert you just need to look upwind. In the case of many deserts upwind is a lot of land, sometimes very bumpy land which has seen lots of cloud and precipitation of rain or snow. By the time the wind gets to the desert region it is very dry and simply cannot form clouds. Some deserts are in coastal regions and upwind lies the ocean, however, in these cases often the ocean is cold as is the case for Atacama. Even though the wind is off the ocean it does not have much moisture because of the cold current up the coast.

    Your mountain situation is somewhat similar in that upwind is down..in elevation that is. The air, that may have been moist when it started its journey upwards from the low lands, cools and the moisture precipitates out so by the time it gets to your ski area it is dry and cannot form clouds. The snow in your ski area arrived in air that was travelling quickly and had such a high moisture content it did not get all the moisture squeezed out lower down. Another name for fast moving moisture laden air is a storm.

    And you are quite correct snow has a very high albedo; once it has fallen it does not absorb solar energy much so it tends to stay. But sprinkle a little dirt on it and it is another matter.

    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.


  5. #65
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    One of the great global warming scientists, philosophers and statesmen speaks out (I'm being sarcastic here).

    I saw an interview with Robert M. Kennedy Jr, son of Robert Kennedy, (duh... that's kind of obvious) the brother of our president John Kennedy. He was a very pro global warming guy, by which I mean that he ascribes all global warming to human caused pollution and talked of the dire consequences to come (He actually made Gores' predictions sound a little meek).

    Part of the way through the interview he made the statement "if you don't agree with me then you are a liar" in rebuttal to John Stossel who wrote a book that pretty much disagreed with a lot of RMK's points of debate (it was a split screen interview with Stossel and RMK Jr.). RMK's point was that the big oil companies bought off Stossel so that he (Stossel) would point the finger of global warming elsewhere). RMK was also making sweeping statements like all scientists and Meteorologists agree with RMK's point of view.

    That's what we need. Good, honest open debate in a straightforward and intelligent manner bu experts in the field.

    If you cut it to small you can always nail another piece on the end, but if you cut it to big... then what the hell you gonna do?

    Steven


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    Quote Originally Posted by sdantonio View Post
    That's what we need. Good, honest open debate in a straightforward and intelligent manner bu experts in the field.
    Dear Steve,

    I couldn't agree more wholeheartedly. The problem is that "honesty and openness" is a slim commodity given the nature of Government funding.

    There is an official policy, and God help those who question it. They will not be fed at the trough.

    Best wishes

    Martin



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    Considering the recent Live Earth concert, it occurs to me that any of the speakers might have said:

    "My friends, I know the earth-saving lifestyle we ask of you may cause some hardship; no great battles are won without many embracing personal sacrafice. However, also know that as you rise through the ranks, as you grow in celebrity and influence, you will, rightly, no longer be expected to bare the burden of self-sacrifice. Our good friends Al Gore, John Edwards, Hollywood, the music industry, and many many others, are wonderful, humble examples of how there need not be a contradiction between extravegant lifestyles and supporting the cause of mother earth. By the time you are seen as a spokeperson for the 'cause', you will have well earned a life of leasure. So take heart. Gia bless. Now lets rock!"



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    That same Robert kennedy is one of the Kenndys' and other Martha's Vineyards "ecoists" who are fighting the installation of wind turbines offshore (5 miles out) because they would ruin their view. If you are believer in man-made global warming fine, but live by your words or get out of the way of those who are doing something that may help at very minimal impact to the "global environment"......RMK, Al Gore, John Edwards...hypocrite is thy name. Read about GWB, someone who actually constructed and lives in a "green friendly home" and made improvements to the White House to reduce its impact on the enviroment. He may not be right on everything but he follows through on his commitments.

    AZSkies2002


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    Cool

    In Australia we are looking down the barrel of a federal election. The left wing party has been in opposition for about 15 years and look as though they might get back into power based somewhat on their take on "climate change" and their accusation that the conservative ruling party haven't done enough about the "problem".

    The ruling party say that the "climate change" case isn't conclusive and unless there is tangible scientific proof they won't be making any radical changes to policy. Depending on your view this looks like prudent governance or stubborn refusal to see a problem.

    The opposition party have clung onto the global warming mantra and looking at the polls, they may have hit a nerve with the great unwashed. Despite the questionable science and associated hyteria, the "climate change" beat up/recognition looks like a winner.

    In the south west of Western Australia we have a piece of God's own country at a town called Denmark. Here the forest, river and sea meet in what used to be a farming / forestry town. In the seventies a lot of hippies formed communes and the dreadlocks, rainbow garbs, kombi vans, bare feet and pot, turned the place into a hippy/greeny refuge.

    The town has since become a mecca for cashed up retirees from larger cities but the local council is still pretty strongly greeny and the town prides itself on its environmentally friendly, tree hugging history.

    In the adjacent southern coastal town of Albany they have a wind farm with about a dozen big 3 bladed turbines made in Germany. Each blade of the turbines is the size of a Jumbo jet wing and the wind farm generates a large proportion of the town's energy due to the prevailing sea breezes off the southern ocean.

    Strangely however when the state government suggested that they install a green / natural energy wind farm at the greeny Denmark shire the environmentally aware council and inhabitants of the tree hugging Denmark would't hear of it and blocked the initiative.

    As the (north) Americans say, go figure.



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    Romans chapter 1 in the Bible says that men would worship and serve the earth that God created instead of worshipping God. Now they are trying to do His job for Him. I think Al Gore is slightly less qualified than God to handle the job. Environmentalism is good to the 70% level. Beyond that it costs the same to clean up the next 10% as it did to clean up the first 70%. EPA will never go away and will always suck the cash out of our pockets for marginal gain. They will not be satisfied with emissions until my diesel is running on water. Reason is not one of thier strong points. When your leader sounds like he is addressing a kindergarten class when he speaks and will not answer questions, there may be something wrong with the "theory". Junk Science?



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    Hi Pete,

    If you pushed a sexular environmentalist (and all the ones I have run across personally are secularists or "neo-pagans" they will counter by telling you that it is the Judeo-Christian tradition that got us in this mess to begin with. While I agree that Al Gore is less qualified to play God than, lets say, the typical 5-year old, there are many in the left wing of the Democratic party in this country who have put him on the same level (unfortunately). The problem your getting into here is that you are dealing with a text that can be twisted to mean just about anything through spin and interpretation.

    genesis (bold emphasis in mine)

    001:026 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our
    likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea,
    and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over
    all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth
    upon the earth.


    001:028 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
    multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have
    dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the
    air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    If you cut it to small you can always nail another piece on the end, but if you cut it to big... then what the hell you gonna do?

    Steven


  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdantonio View Post
    Hi Pete,

    If you pushed a sexular environmentalist (and all the ones I have run across personally are secularists or "neo-pagans" they will counter by telling you that it is the Judeo-Christian tradition that got us in this mess to begin with. While I agree that Al Gore is less qualified to play God than, lets say, the typical 5-year old, there are many in the left wing of the Democratic party in this country who have put him on the same level (unfortunately). The problem your getting into here is that you are dealing with a text that can be twisted to mean just about anything through spin and interpretation.
    On the topic of spin and interpretation are the double entendres here deliberate?

    Are all evironmentalists "sexular" or is your finger too fat for your keyboard?

    And the second sentence is not entirely clear; are the 'many in the left wing' equating Gore with God, Gore with a five year old or a five year old with God?

    I dooo hope your lectures on physics (assuming you give any) are more elucidatory

    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.


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    elucidatory? Or elucidative?

    Steve
    DO SOMETHING, EVEN IF IT'S WRONG!


  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madclicker View Post
    elucidatory? Or elucidative?
    I don't know . Anyway you wouldn't expect a Physicist to know the difference would you?

    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.


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    physicist? Or Physicist?

    Steve
    DO SOMETHING, EVEN IF IT'S WRONG!


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    You should have seen Kennedy getting all bug eyed with Glenn Beck. Kennedy is a complete idiot. He says a bunch of stupid stuff. He claimed that Glenn hadn't read the IPCC report and that he has, but it hasn't been released yet. The guy started quoting the definition of fascism as corporate power dominating government. It's worth a look.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0


    fas·cism (fāsh'ĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key n.

    1. often Fascism
    1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
    2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
    2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
    "suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship", sounds a lot like what Kennedy is participating in. If you don't believe in Global Warming you should be charged with treason. Humm. Guess he didn't get much from his dad.



  17. #77
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    Global Darkening, a Looming Catastrophe

    A catastrophe that dwarfs global warming has been recently discovered; it's called Global Darkening. Leading environmental scientists first noticed this phenomena on June 23 of this year. Careful scientific measurements showed daylight hours were beginning to decrease.

    At first the daylight decay was less than a minute per day. This alarming trend has accelerated and now several minutes are lost per day. Computer models using this recent scientific data show global darkness (the runaway Blackhouse Effect) will make the earth uninhabitable within a few years. Left unchecked, the world will be plunged into complete blackness unless something is done immediately. One needs only to look at our planetary neighbor, the Moon, to see what the Blackhouse Effect has done to its dark side.

    Eco-solar scientists claim the only possible explanation is the sun is being used up and the cause is obviously man made. Our use of solar power is consuming precious solar resources at an ever increasing rate. The causes can be seen everywhere; wastefully turning sunlight into electricity, environmentally irresponsible sun tanning, using windows to admit daylight in millions of homes. The list is endless and it all has an untold negative effect on our fragile solar ecosystem. We must take drastic measures immediately before it's too late.

    A few irresponsible scientists claim this is just a natural cycle. They cite a few unsubstantiated reports from the Southern Hemisphere that daylight hours are increasing there. They have been paid by the solar cell industry.

    As responsible people we cannot wait for all the science to come in on Global Darkening; by then it will be too late. The Blackhouse Effect is real, it's occurring now and our profligate, solar-dependent Western lifestyle is to blame. All responsible scientists agree daylight hours are getting shorter now and everyone knows computer models can accurately predict the future. 10-day weather forecasts prove it.

    We must aid in stopping this growing crisis. Solar cells and solar hot water heaters must be banned. Solar offsets must be paid by tan people to pale people. Concerts must be held to raise awareness and all windows must be boarded-up. Crops, the biggest waste of limited solar resources, must be plowed under. A comprehensive desertification program must be instituted by progressive people everywhere immediately. Do it for the children; don't they deserve their day in the sun?

    Mariss



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    Hi Mariss,
    sometime this year you posted a comment that you felt that world as we know it was going to be "de-engineered". I can't remember the exact words you used but I did do a search through all your previous posts this year and didn't see it. Do you remember making that post and if so when? Can you expand on your theory a bit? The reason for my curiousity is that it's what I believe is happening also.

    By the way, I know your views on global warming, the environment, etc. are a bit contradictory to mine. I have always believed that we must look after this earth we live on in order to protect it for future generations (litter, pollution, fosil fuels, etc.). I'm not saying you do or don't believe in those things but I must admit that since reading your posts I've started to look at many of these subjects in a more objective way. i.e. how much is real and how much of it originates from the fear/panick business in order to benefit certain industries/individuals.

    Speaking of looking after the environment, the area where I live in Spain has terrible tasting water (undrinkable) and until now we have always bought bottled water. I hate bottled water due to the amount of energy it took to bring you the water (transport from factory to distributor to shop to home) and the amount of plastic that gets dumped into the landfill afterwards. Finally I splashed out and bought a reverse osmosis water filtration unit. I looked at the instructions and saw that it has a waste pipe that gets connected to the waste water system for backflushing. As I fitted the system in the basement directly under the kitchen, I just left a drain pipe to backflush into a bucket. I turned on the system only to find that water is constantly coming out of the drain pipe. I check the manual, didn't find anything, check the internet and discover to my amazement that that is how the system works. Due to the constant movement of water from one side of a membrane to another, the microparticles get left behind. Constant movement of water meaning that it permanently dumps water into the drain and I'm not talking about drip/drip either but a 1/4" tube running permanently. Talk about being dissillusioned about a product, now I have to find a use for the waste water. (plants?)

    (Sent to you by pm as well)



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    Quote Originally Posted by skippy View Post
    ......Due to the constant movement of water from one side of a membrane to another, the microparticles get left behind. Constant movement of water meaning that it permanently dumps water into the drain and I'm not talking about drip/drip either but a 1/4" tube running permanently. Talk about being dissillusioned about a product, now I have to find a use for the waste water. (plants?)
    Dependent on the salt content of the original water and the efficiency of the RO unit the reject water may not be suitable for plants due to a higher salt content.

    You have discovered the fallacy behind using RO to get potable water from a poor supply; the supply flow needs to be many times the consumption.

    Why don't you put in a solar still? It is possible to get litres per day from a correctly setup solar still and it does not need to have a tracking or focussing system. Google 'solar still' and maybe include 'mother earth news'.

    If you cannot find anything I can post some sketches.

    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.


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    I'll second that.
    A "solar still" is the way to go.

    It takes a bit of maintenance -but it is the way Mother Nature does it.

    Operational costs are about zilch but for some labor/time.



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