Build Thread Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.


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Thread: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

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    Default Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    I'm posting here for others who may be contemplating a retrofit to their Emco mill.

    I will also be posting a retrofit for the Emco PC Turn 50 in a different thread, although many items will be from the same companies.

    Here are some pictures of the condition of the Emco PC Mill 50 as I received it.

    Stay Tuned for the retrofit........

    James L









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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    The back panel opened, and started to strip outdated components:





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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    The retrofit parts (mostly) have been ordered.

    The kit list:

    NEMA23 282oz/in 3A Stepper Motor ¼” Dual shaft (KL23H276-30-8B) x3
    KL-5056 20-50VDC 5.6A Digital Bipolar Stepper Motor Driver x3
    CSMIO/IP-S - 6 axis Ethernet Motion Controller (STEP/DIR) with Connectors for Mach3
    CSMIO-ENC Threading Module
    AC Servo Driver (simDrive™) and AC Servo Motor 750W Set
    simDrive PowerModule 325VDC|2000VA Power Supply for simDrive Servo Drive
    Programming cable for simDrive™ servo drives USB to PC connection cable
    Adapter for easy simDrive 750W and CSM Servo Motor 750W connection
    USB MPG Handwheel for Mach3 Controller, 4 Axis ( X, Y, Z, A)
    SE-100-24 Mean Well Power Supply 24V 4.5A
    SE-600-48 Mean Well Power Supply 48V 12.5A

    Will be a few days until all the parts arrive.

    James L



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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    Well, I've hit a little snag in my retrofit. I want to take the spindle to a higher speed, but the motor to spindle has a reduction of 57.8%. (one pulley having 22 teeth, and the other 38, with the smaller being on the motor).

    I am retrofitting an AC servo, but it's upper limit is 4500 rpm. I would like the spindle to make 6000 rpm. Not sure what I'm going to do at this point. It may be a change that I do later. The motor pulley must be bored from 14mm to 19 mm, but it has the material to do so.

    EDIT: I have decided to put the belts back as original (with the motor pulley bored for the servo....19mm), until I can machine new pulleys. These pulleys are very strange. They are empirical(SAE) on the outside (belt), but metric on the inside (shaft). Finding a XL pulley that is 3/4 inches (.75) wide is not easy.

    James L



    Last edited by propellanttech; 03-28-2017 at 01:01 PM.


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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    So far the retrofit has been going as I expected, but I have hit a small problem, and a huge irritation I'll expand upon at the end.

    The problem first: I don't have any manual machines, so I must rely upon some local machinist to bore the pulleys for the steppers and the new spindle drive. Not really a problem, but not many around that will take small jobs in my area. I think I have found a possible candidate, but I'm waiting until I have all my motors to have them done.

    Now the irritation that is really a huge deal for me: I ordered a lot of items from Automation Technology Inc. in Illinois. Almost 2000 usd worth. I get a box today with the steppers, stepper drivers, and the MPG control for Mach3. I also get an email from them that is a forward from CS Labs with shipping information for things that cost me extra. I'll explain how. I ordered a few items from CS Labs (in Poland) that Automation Technologies didn't have on their website, and didn't sell. I had to pay shipping on that. Now I have another package that is coming from Poland that cost me chipping as well, that was drop shipped by Automation Technologies. Yes another shipping cost.

    I will likely not order from automation technologies again. They are just a drop shipper, that could have let me know to just purchase from CS labs directly.

    If you are a supplier, actually have the supplies in stock or inform people you are drop shipping items. I could have saved money by just ordering every CS Labs product from them.

    James L





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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    Hi! Thanks so much for posting a build thread on the PC-Mill 50!

    I just picked one up at an auction and I am looking to do a conversion also. I am planning to add a fourth axis later (maybe 5 if possible?), and I am now looking to buy the components for the retrofit. (This is my first CNC retrofit)

    Some questions:
    Why are two different power supplies needed both 24v and 48V? I think there is already a 24V PSU in the Emco machine.
    I see that you ordered the CSMIO/IP-S - 6 axis Ethernet Motion Controller. It looks like a very fine piece of equipment, but it is also quite a bit more expensive than smoothstepper. What is it that you can do with that that you would not be able to do with smoothstepper?
    I do have manual machines (mill,lathe) so if you need some machining done I would be happy to help.



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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    Quote Originally Posted by swedishmetalguy View Post
    Hi! Thanks so much for posting a build thread on the PC-Mill 50!

    I just picked one up at an auction and I am looking to do a conversion also. I am planning to add a fourth axis later (maybe 5 if possible?), and I am now looking to buy the components for the retrofit. (This is my first CNC retrofit)

    Some questions:
    Why are two different power supplies needed both 24v and 48V? I think there is already a 24V PSU in the Emco machine.
    I see that you ordered the CSMIO/IP-S - 6 axis Ethernet Motion Controller. It looks like a very fine piece of equipment, but it is also quite a bit more expensive than smoothstepper. What is it that you can do with that that you would not be able to do with smoothstepper?
    I do have manual machines (mill,lathe) so if you need some machining done I would be happy to help.
    I've been sidetracked for a while. My parts got lost in shipment from Poland, and the manufacturer and myself have worked hard to get the parts to me (actually twice).

    To answer your questions:

    The 24 volts is the control voltage. Only the controls get powered by this, and 24 volts is an industry standard. This means you are putting a control with the same voltage as industry does. There is a 24 volt power supply, but I was worried about it's noise specification. It may put out a very noisy 24 volts that the old electronics didn't mind. I try to prevent problems, and noise on your power side can be a real bad thing. That is why the new switching power supply. I know it's specifications, and it should put out clean power. It was a preventative measure on my part.

    Second the steppers require 48 volts by the calculation here. According to Gecko, the maximum voltage you should use is 32 x sq. rt. of inductance.
    32 x sqrt 2.2mH = 47.46 Volts (I'm wring bipolar steppers in parallel to lower the inductance.)

    I should say, the power for the stepper motors, and the power for your electronics should never come from the same power supply (ideally). The constant pulse of current on the power supply may make your controls go nuts.

    I use the CSMIO to get away from parallel ports. You can only run a parallel port effectively in Win 98 or lower. The CSMIO/IP-S uses ethernet, which isn't limited to OS. This means I can use any computer that can run Mach3 that has an ethernet port (no laptops). I also wanted more than 4 outputs. If you want a tool changer and more than 3 axis, you will need more than 4 outputs. I do plan to have up to 5 axis. I also plan a tool changer in the future that will take an axis.

    Also you must consider some things like hard tapping. If you want to hard tap, the CSMIO can do it with the ENC module (and the spindle with an encoder).

    I used these part in the case I ever wanted to sell the machine. The controls will be much more industrial, and easily worked on by someone familiar with controls.

    That should cover the reasons I chose the parts I did. I will return soon to the build.

    I'm currently trying to get the stepper pulleys machined to fit the new steppers. Just slightly enlarged the through hole, from 6mm to 0.25 inch.

    I will admit, I am building a control system way above and beyond what the current machine needs. But I do plan to expand the machine into a "concept" version mod.

    At current, my machine controls should run up to 700 mm per min. (actually 730), but that should be fast enough for it's size.

    James L

    It should also be noted, I'm doing a PC turn 50 as well, with the same controls.

    Last edited by propellanttech; 06-28-2017 at 01:29 PM.


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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    Well, it looks as if photobucket has gone to a paid system, which I will not be extorted.

    I will try to re do my post with pictures from somewhere else.

    James L



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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    test





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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    So I have been sidetracked due to the season. Yes between mowing the grass, trimming the hedges, and working on our boat (two months), I just haven't had time to work on the retrofit.

    It did take a few weeks to track down a machinist in my area to transfer the pulleys from the old motors (6mm shaft) to the new motors (0.25 inch shaft). I got them done.



    I've also gutted the machine as far as needed to start putting things back in. Unfortunately I was on the fence about the spindle motor. I decided to leave the spindle motor as original for now. That means a VFD is needed, and I'm awaiting a reply from CS Labs about interfacing with the possible VFD I've chosen. I'll expand on that later after they give me an answer.



    I do have the print mostly done in Diptrace. I had a PCB business a few years ago, and already had the software. It will help a lot, and the machine will have updated prints should I ever decide to sell it.



    I am making progress, but slowly. In a week I may do some leaps and bounds.

    J.



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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    Should you want a picture I have posted earlier, I can repost. But this thread will continue. Sorry about the images that will never show up again.

    As a side note. I will never hesitate to buy parts from CS Labs in Poland. They really show they care, and worked tirelessly to help me get parts (lost for 6 weeks). Not once but twice.

    I ended with two sets of parts, after only ordering one. I decided to purchase the second set, to relieve them from the issues of getting them back. I am going to retrofit a PC 50 Turn as well. Those second parts will go on the lathe.

    If you're on the fence. Don't be!!!! They are knowledgeable, and very professional. But I do recommend buying direct from them.

    J



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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    So during my hiatus from machine building, I've changed my path just a small amount. Unfortunately the costs are not as small. Instead of mounting a new servo for the spindle(which I have already purchased), I've decided to make a changeable spindle. The current spindle can be totally removed by taking off 2 hex nuts. At current the old spindle is going back on with the original motor. After the machine is running, I will be machining a new spindle mount for a high speed water cooled spindle. Both spindles can be run from the same VFD, so all I must do is make a connection system for swaping the motor connections, and alter the maximum frequency depending on which spindle is equipped.

    I know someone is going to ask, "why would you make it changeable." I'm doing this to make sure, if it doesn't work out, I can revert to to the previous spindle. Then others are going to say, "Put two spindles in. The original in it's spot, and another on the side of that." Nope. I want both spindles to have the machines full envelope.

    I've reached a point, where I must have all the parts to populate the back plane (metal plate inside the control box). I am a controls guy, and know you do not start populating a back plane without all the necessary components. If you do, you will inevitably have to move something.

    I'm also including 6 relays that were not on the original parts list to control the VFD direction (2 relays), and lubrication solenoid (1 relay). I have also purchased an air solenoid to control the lubrication (mist). There will also be an automatic tool length sensor included in the build, as the high speed spindle doesn't have tool holders, just a collet.

    It is coming along, but as always, not as fast as I want.



    J



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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    So, after some interesting events in my life, I finally got around to working on the re-control of the PC 50 Mill. I removed the backplane of the control box, and started laying out new components as well as some old ones.



    I put everything that is to be included on the backplane, and started remounting things. I need some DIN rail, so I chose to not mount everything until I can attain some. There is a local automation dealer, so I'll get some tomorrow.







    Should have everything mounted by the end of the weekend. Then on to wiring. The main stepper power supply (48v) will be mounted on the bottom shelf of the back plane. It really is the only place left to put it. It may just sit there, as it has no mounting brackets. The grounding bar will also be located on that shelf as well.

    James L



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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    The DIN rails are mounted, as well as the wire tracks. Now I must some drills and taps to mount the last few items ( small power supply, VFD, and Stepper drivers) . Then the backplane can go back in to be wired.

    James L



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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    Looks interesting, did you get this conversion finished ?

    How does it perform, and what projects have you used it for since completion ?



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    Default Re: Emco PC Mill 50 Retrofit.

    Quote Originally Posted by fastbike View Post
    Looks interesting, did you get this conversion finished ?

    How does it perform, and what projects have you used it for since completion ?
    Actually, No I haven't.

    I had an incident that frustrated me and hindered my progress (that will be revealed in the videos). I'm about to start up my Youtube Channel and will be using the retrofit as my first project. Filming will begin shortly. (in the next two weeks).

    I'm currently about halfway through mounting the new control components on the backplane of the PC50 Mill.

    But thanks for asking...... Life got in the way.....but I'm working to get back to it.



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