EMCO 120/Emco Control - Loading Program from Windows Based (like Cimco, etc)

[kempmetal1945]

I have Emco machines at my place (mostly older ones like 320/325), but then one old one the Emco 120. That machine uses SP.EXE (dos based) to load the programs into the machine. Obviously any newer computer doesnt have DOS, and anything after XP I believe doesnt even have a DOS shell, so we use a DOS emulator to open and run SP.EXE with no issues.
That being said, I am looking to use a DNC like system or something more windows based in my factory. It is easier to edit, easier to name programs, etc. I am testing Cimco edit for the time being just to see if I can even send, before investing into an entire DNC like system. I set all of the settings (port, baudrate, Parity, etc) the same as it is in the Dos-based SP program, but when I go to send, it gives me an error 600 incorrect editing sequence. I tried to lower the baudrate all the way to 600, and now it doesnt give the error, it simply doesnt send the program. I tried sending a program FROM the Emco to the computer, and it successfully transferred, however the result was similar to wingdings...it was simply gobbledigook (to me at least). Does anyone have any suggestions, or any success sending from a windows based program to an older emco control?

Thank you in advance,
scott

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[machinehop5]

...600 baud is to high try 300 after looking around the net I found this thread below:


The cable should be a regular serial cable.

Settings in the controller: For transfer both ways 300 baud, for transfer out of the controller higher rates can be used. DO NOT use higher rates than 300 baud for transfer to the controller, for me everything looked OK but blocks were lost and no warning given.

Settings on the computer, BOTH in the device manager and terminal program. 300baud, 7 data bits, even parity, 1 stop bit, RTS/CTS flow control. Turn off FIFO buffers or set to a small size.

Transfer from the controller should now work with no problems. To transfer a file to the controller you might first need to transfer a file out of the controller, this is to set the flow control lines in the correct state. When using PComm the small CTS indicator should be red, otherwise transfer to the controller does not work.

The exact format of the file is also important for the transfer to work, first line should be of the format "%0001 CRLF". This means % program number space carriage return linefeed, the space is important!
The other lines have the format "N0005 G01 X10.000CRLF", i.e block number space space instruction carriage return linefeed. Two spaces after block number and no space after the instruction(s), do not forget the decimal point. Last in the file it must be "M30CRLF"
With a file in the right format and the CTS indicator lit (if using PComm) press "INT 1 ENTER O 1 ENTER INP" on the controller (1 means any free program number here). The screen should display the amount of free memmory and the display should say somethingIforgot but lo at the end anyway.
Now send the file from the computer.

/Staffan

[kempmetal1945]

Thank you I will try that. What is the reason behind adding the CRLF to the programs? and is that every line? (the reason I ask is we dont need to do that when sending from the DOS based program).

- - - Updated - - -

also, could it be something in the ASCII settings? When I transfer a file TO the computer FROM the controller it comes all messed up, but it does transfer

[kempmetal1945]

Thank you for your reply I am able, with a DOS emulator or the like, open and send programs through my SP.exe program. The issue is that I want to send it from the windows-based Cimco or a program like that. I have all of the settings in device manager matching those in cimco.

COM1, 300 baud (When I send it with a higher baud rate, I get the error 600 incorrect editing sequence. When I lower it to 300, it goes through the entire process as if it is sending, but the machine is not giving an error NOR is it accepting the program. Its almost as if it is loading into thin air). , even parity, data bits 7, stop bits 1, hardware flow control (have also tried software). Also the setting says RTS/DTR contrl not CTS. I tried fifo buffers at 1 and tried with it off

I dont know what this means "To transfer a file to the controller you might first need to transfer a file out of the controller, this is to set the flow control lines in the correct state. When using PComm the small CTS indicator should be red, otherwise transfer to the controller does not work" The program adds the CRLF (says /10 /13 or /13 /10 in the program, also dont know what that means).

When I load the program as you say it displays the memory but stays on there when I load the program. In Cimco, it shows the window, loads all of the lines (the lights flash, the CTS one never lights up though) and it runs through the whole thing as if it wrked fine, but the same memory # is displayed on the machine. Any thoughts?

...600 baud is to high try 300 after looking around the net I found this thread below:


The cable should be a regular serial cable.

Settings in the controller: For transfer both ways 300 baud, for transfer out of the controller higher rates can be used. DO NOT use higher rates than 300 baud for transfer to the controller, for me everything looked OK but blocks were lost and no warning given.

Settings on the computer, BOTH in the device manager and terminal program. 300baud, 7 data bits, even parity, 1 stop bit, RTS/CTS flow control. Turn off FIFO buffers or set to a small size.

Transfer from the controller should now work with no problems. To transfer a file to the controller you might first need to transfer a file out of the controller, this is to set the flow control lines in the correct state. When using PComm the small CTS indicator should be red, otherwise transfer to the controller does not work.

The exact format of the file is also important for the transfer to work, first line should be of the format "%0001 CRLF". This means % program number space carriage return linefeed, the space is important!
The other lines have the format "N0005 G01 X10.000CRLF", i.e block number space space instruction carriage return linefeed. Two spaces after block number and no space after the instruction(s), do not forget the decimal point. Last in the file it must be "M30CRLF"
With a file in the right format and the CTS indicator lit (if using PComm) press "INT 1 ENTER O 1 ENTER INP" on the controller (1 means any free program number here). The screen should display the amount of free memmory and the display should say somethingIforgot but lo at the end anyway.
Now send the file from the computer.

/Staffan

[machinehop5]

...what kind of RS232 cabling are you using to interface between CNC and PC?
Is the Cable home made?

[kempmetal1945]

Standard serial store bought cable, same one we use to succesfully send from DOS based program so its weird, but here is a strange addition. one of my machinists tried something and it made things even more strange (to me, maybe this solves something for you)
The first line of our programs always look like this "%0001" or whatever the program # is. So he made it look like this:
%
0001
and all of a sudden it took the program. Now, here is where it took a strange turn. We took another program, and tried the same thing but this one was program 5, so
%
0005
and it didnt work!?!!? Then all I did was change the 5 to a 1, and it sent again.


any thoughts?

...what kind of RS232 cabling are you using to interface between CNC and PC?
Is the Cable home made?

[machinehop5]

Standard serial store bought cable, same one we use to succesfully send from DOS based program so its weird, but here is a strange addition. one of my machinists tried something and it made things even more strange (to me, maybe this solves something for you)
The first line of our programs always look like this "%0001" or whatever the program # is. So he made it look like this:
%
0001
and all of a sudden it took the program. Now, here is where it took a strange turn. We took another program, and tried the same thing but this one was program 5, so
%
0005
and it didnt work!?!!? Then all I did was change the 5 to a 1, and it sent again.


any thoughts?

...the Format is important. What ever the your CNC to PC is transferring and the Spaces may or may not be needed. As far as the %O001 or is it %0001 try using a capital %O005 not zero (0) for the first thing after the % sign.
....Also, sometimes a Blank Line at the 1st part of the program before the % statement line is needed....again look how the Format is from a Transferred program from the cnc.

[mactec54]

Standard serial store bought cable, same one we use to succesfully send from DOS based program so its weird, but here is a strange addition. one of my machinists tried something and it made things even more strange (to me, maybe this solves something for you)
The first line of our programs always look like this "%0001" or whatever the program # is. So he made it look like this:
%
0001
and all of a sudden it took the program. Now, here is where it took a strange turn. We took another program, and tried the same thing but this one was program 5, so
%
0005
and it didnt work!?!!? Then all I did was change the 5 to a 1, and it sent again.


any thoughts?

You don't need the % at the top or bottom of these Emco programs, the correct program number is to use O0001 or any number you want, that is the letter O then your number.

9600 is the normal Baud rate for these controls, there is a jumper that may need to be changed, depending on what control you have. and how old the machine is.

[MrMetric]

there is a jumper that may need to be changed, depending on what control you have. and how old the machine is.

That is an interesting comment.... I don't recall any jumper on the Emco system related to this. Communications is all handled through MSD setup via the keyboard on my machine. I'd love to hear more about what you are talking about mactec.

FWIW, 19.2K works well for me, but I typically just leave it at 9600. If you don't have the protocols configured properly, however, it is likely that you are having buffer overrun. I wrote the "Idiot's guide to setting up serial communications" awhile ago so that I (the idiot) would have a reference whenever I forgot what I had previously figured out. I'll look for that and post it when I get a chance. It covers all the configuration and cabling.

[mactec54]

That is an interesting comment.... I don't recall any jumper on the Emco system related to this. Communications is all handled through MSD setup via the keyboard on my machine. I'd love to hear more about what you are talking about mactec.

FWIW, 19.2K works well for me, but I typically just leave it at 9600. If you don't have the protocols configured properly, however, it is likely that you are having buffer overrun. I wrote the "Idiot's guide to setting up serial communications" awhile ago so that I (the idiot) would have a reference whenever I forgot what I had previously figured out. I'll look for that and post it when I get a chance. It covers all the configuration and cabling.

This is an Emco Card that is used in a PC, to transfer or communicate with the control. It's in the manuals I have. I retrofitted my machines long ago, with Acorn control and Ac servos. the old Emco controls where good but outdated now they are not worth messing with.

[MrMetric]

Ah... You are talking about an ISA card in the PC. Gotcha. That is a different beast. I thought you were talking about a jumper inside the 120 control; configuration there is via MSD. And if you use a standard PC serial port (or FTDI adapter), the COM settings are also software based.

As for the controls... Yeah, I understand. It is the Vexta steppers and the spindle motor that keep holding me back on a retrofit. Sure, I could interface to the stepper easily enough, but the spindle is a bigger issue.

[mactec54]

Ah... You are talking about an ISA card in the PC. Gotcha. That is a different beast. I thought you were talking about a jumper inside the 120 control; configuration there is via MSD. And if you use a standard PC serial port (or FTDI adapter), the COM settings are also software based.

As for the controls... Yeah, I understand. It is the Vexta steppers and the spindle motor that keep holding me back on a retrofit. Sure, I could interface to the stepper easily enough, but the spindle is a bigger issue.

Spindle is easy unless you still have the DC motor, I took out the DC spindle motor on the 140T I have, the 120T has an Ac motor so was easy, with a Yaskawa VFD Drive

[MrMetric]

It is an AC motor, but with field and armature individually controlled, as I recall. The bigger issue is that it is 400V, and I am in the residential US. I really don't want to deal with yet another step up transformer.

[mactec54]

It is an AC motor, but with field and armature individually controlled, as I recall. The bigger issue is that it is 400V, and I am in the residential US. I really don't want to deal with yet another step up transformer.

Yes, that would have to go, what machine do you have?

[MrMetric]

It is an EmcoTurn 120

[machinehop5]

It is an EmcoTurn 120

...120.1 or 2 pills---jumpers
board members 1980's

[mactec54]

It is an EmcoTurn 120

So, a 3Ph 5Hp 240v Baldor Washdown motor would be a good replacement, or a manufacture with the same spec type of motor, these motors can run up to 6,000 RPM if you choose the right one