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  1. #81
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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    I measured the resistance on the wires I suspect may be tac wires and come up with 2 ohms. I get 4 ohms when I measure the motor wires.



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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    I've been doing some more reading and watching videos of amc servi controls and what I suspect were tac wires may not be. I watched a video where a guy was explainind hooking up a controler and he used it in a current monitoring setup andsid that if he had a tac, itwould be attached on the front of the motor, which I do not have. So, mine may also be a system which needs to be cuurrent or voltage monitored for speed. Any insight?



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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    I measured the resistance on the wires I suspect may be tac wires and come up with 2 ohms. I get 4 ohms when I measure the motor wires.
    Well that seems wrong. A tachometer is actually just a small DC Motor. When a DC Motor spins it generates a Voltage. But since it only needs to generate a signal without any significant power very thin wire is used. I would have expected 100 ohm resistance or more.

    Also the motor specification we found stated 0.43 ohms. So 2 or 4 ohms wouldn't make sense. Although the brushes are involved. Sometimes the brushes have strange effects with low currents used for measuring. You might try moving the rotor to different positions to see if there is variation.

    Some meters don't measure low resistances well. The resistance of the test leads can add to the measurement. If you touch the probes together the resistance should be zero. Try that and see what it reads.

    Do you think you are using the meter correctly? Could it be 0.4 ohms instead of 4 ohms? Could it be KOhms instead of Ohms?

    Previously you said you had the motor spinning but never explained what you did, how it was wired, what supply was used, how fast it spun, etc.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  4. #84
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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Well that seems wrong. A tachometer is actually just a small DC Motor. When a DC Motor spins it generates a Voltage. But since it only needs to generate a signal without any significant power very thin wire is used. I would have expected 100 ohm resistance or more.
    The wires are smaller than the servo wires


    Some meters don't measure low resistances well. The resistance of the test leads can add to the measurement. If you touch the probes together the resistance should be zero. Try that and see what it reads.

    Do you think you are using the meter correctly? Could it be 0.4 ohms instead of 4 ohms? Could it be KOhms instead of Ohms?

    Previously you said you had the motor spinning but never explained what you did, how it was wired, what supply was used, how fast it spun, etc.
    I didn't thing it was correct, I'll attempt a measurement again and spin the motor shaft.



  5. #85
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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Well that seems wrong. A tachometer is actually just a small DC Motor. When a DC Motor spins it generates a Voltage. But since it only needs to generate a signal without any significant power very thin wire is used. I would have expected 100 ohm resistance or more.
    The wires are smaller than the servo wires


    Some meters don't measure low resistances well. The resistance of the test leads can add to the measurement. If you touch the probes together the resistance should be zero. Try that and see what it reads.

    Do you think you are using the meter correctly? Could it be 0.4 ohms instead of 4 ohms? Could it be KOhms instead of Ohms?

    Previously you said you had the motor spinning but never explained what you did, how it was wired, what supply was used, how fast it spun, etc.
    I didn't thing it was correct, I'll attempt a measurement again and spin the motor shaft. As far as the servo motor spinning all I did was hook up the wiring like we've been discossing here, servo motor through amc drive into Kanalog. When I put power to the amc drive the servo motor will spin clockwise at aproximately 6-8 rpm (guessing). I have no way to know because it's not regestering in kanalog software. Now I have to wait till this weekend to hookup any software, I tripped over the usb cord and pulled the usb connection from Kanalog, so I ordered a new board.



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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    I attempted to get a new ohm reading with the 2 multimeters that I have , still getting wired readings, see results in the pictures.

    I also disconnected the two wires that I believed to be tac wires and hooked them up to my voltmeter and get 8vDC when plugged into power.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?-20200721_161019-jpg   is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?-20200721_160836-jpg   is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?-20200721_161536-jpg  


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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    Is there any suggestions or am I one the correct path thinking the 2 extra wires are tac wires?



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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    I also disconnected the two wires that I believed to be tac wires and hooked them up to my voltmeter and get 8vDC when plugged into power.
    I don't understand what you mean by: "when plugged into power". The amplifier? You measure 8V on the Tach with the Tach disconnected and the motor spinning? At what RPM?


    Well I was trying to help you be sure of things before applying power to avoid damage to things. But it seems you have already applied power. So now may as well command DAC Voltages to see how well things are working. You might read this Thread where a User has a similar issue.


    I tripped over the usb cord and pulled the usb connection from Kanalog
    The USB Connector is on KFLOP not Kanalog.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    I don't understand what you mean by: "when plugged into power". The amplifier? You measure 8V on the Tach with the Tach disconnected and the motor spinning? At what RPM?
    I can't verrify RPM as nothing shows an rpm value.

    Well I was trying to help you be sure of things before applying power to avoid damage to things. But it seems you have already applied power. So now may as well command DAC Voltages to see how well things are working. You might read this Thread where a User has a similar issue.
    I thought you said everything in my drawing looked good?
    The USB Connector is on KFLOP not Kanalog.
    Tomato, tomato



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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    I thought you said everything in my drawing looked good?
    That assumed it was labelled correctly.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    I have DAC0 wired to Z axis and am able to command motor speed, but it doesn't read encoder position. When commanded DAC=0 the servo still spins but I guess this is just a ballancing issue.



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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    I have DAC0 wired to Z axis and am able to command motor speed, but it doesn't read encoder position.
    Are you looking at he KMotion Axis Screen?

    Measure the voltage across Kanalog JP1 Pins 1 and 2. Move the Encoder to random positions. Is the Voltage sometimes about 3V and sometimes -3V?

    When commanded DAC=0 the servo still spins but I guess this is just a ballancing issue.
    Probably so. How fast does it spin? Is there a DAC value where it stops or almost stops??

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Are you looking at he KMotion Axis Screen?

    Measure the voltage across Kanalog JP1 Pins 1 and 2. Move the Encoder to random positions. Is the Voltage sometimes about 3V and sometimes -3V?
    yes Im looking at the axis motion screen per the manual, and there is no voltage when measures across JP1 pin 1-2 but I do get the 5v when measuring the power wires hooked up to JP8 and grd.

    Probably so. How fast does it spin? Is there a DAC value where it stops or almost stops??
    Its spinning slow web won't allow me to post a video. No DAC value will stop it.



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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    there is no voltage when measures across JP1 pin 1-2 but I do get the 5v when measuring the power wires hooked up to JP8 and grd.
    Then the encoder is bad or not wired correctly. Check across JP1 check Pins 3 and 4. Check signals at Encoder instead of at Kanalog.

    No DAC value will stop it.
    At what DAC value does it change direction?

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Then the encoder is bad or not wired correctly. Check across JP1 check Pins 3 and 4. Check signals at Encoder instead of at Kanalog.
    I got it, I had some wires misplaced from encoder to cabinet connectors. I have the encoder counting FWD and REV.

    At what DAC value does it change direction?
    I was able to get the servo motor nearly/bassically stopped when I entered DAC= -12. If I attempted to command DAC=100 when at DAC=-12 the electronics would fault out and I would have to unplug and replug the 110v, but if I entered DAC= in 10 or 20 increments I would have no problem.



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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    I got it, I had some wires misplaced from encoder to cabinet connectors. I have the encoder counting FWD and REV.
    Very Good!


    I was able to get the servo motor nearly/bassically stopped when I entered DAC= -12
    That's a fairly small offset. 12/4096 = 0.3% of full range.


    If I attempted to command DAC=100 when at DAC=-12 the electronics would fault out and I would have to unplug and replug the 110v, but if I entered DAC= in 10 or 20 increments I would have no problem.
    That sounds reasonable. Instant changes in commanded speed theoretically requires infinite acceleration. A commanded trajectory would never do this.

    You should now be ready to close loop servo! The next step would be this.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    It's been a little difficult to want to get out in the garage and work on this machine due to the heat, but I did manage to get all 3 servos working and followed your instructions to get the C program started. I've played with the Step response screen numbers, but how do I actually determine my servos steps per motor rev on a Analog servo?

    Last edited by Gunmachinist; 08-14-2020 at 07:48 PM.


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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    how do I actually determine my servos steps per motor rev on a Analog servo?
    Analog Servos don't have steps. Instead they have encoder counts. Rotate the motor one rev and observe the Axis Screen to see how many counts the Position changes. For a more accurate measurement rotate more revs ie. 10 and divide by 10.

    But what really matters is the counts per distance. This is a function of both the counts per rev and also the other mechanics: lead screw, gearing, etc. In a similar way move some large amount and measure the number of encoder counts and the distance moved.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    Been doing more studying on balancing the servos, and should I have already initiated the C program after getting the servos working, or should I have attempted to balance the servos first then setup the C program? I'm trying to read through all the information on the website, wiki, and on the CNC zone (Anilam/ supermax Frankenstein project using Dynomotion Kflop and Kanalog boards.) post. I'm kinda confused when to do what.

    I've been all the way through:
    in the Anilam/ supermax Frankenstein project using Dynomotion Kflop and Kanalog boards post
    #1 Using KMotion's C Program Screen select Thread #1
    #2 Open the example C program called Init3Analog.c
    #3 On the Config/Flash Screen push "Export All to Open C Program"
    #4 Depress "OK" to a message indicating Axis Channels 0,1,2 will be Updated.
    #5 On the C Program Screen push "Save As" and supply a unique name

    You are now ready to Assign this program to a button in KMotionCNC

    #1 Run KMotionCNC
    #2 Select the Tool Setup
    #3 Select the "User Buttons" Tab
    #4 Select "Execute Prog" mode for the First Button and change its label to "INIT"
    #5 Enter Thread=1 Var=0 and File as the one you created above



  20. #100
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    Default Re: is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

    Been doing more studying on balancing the servos, and should I have already initiated the C program after getting the servos working, or should I have attempted to balance the servos first then setup the C program? I'm trying to read through all the information on the website, wiki, and on the CNC zone (Anilam/ supermax Frankenstein project using Dynomotion Kflop and Kanalog boards.) post. I'm kinda confused when to do what.
    The C Program's Job is to be able to configure the system from other Applications without needing KMotion.exe. So it should be created after you have a good working configuration.

    Its not clear you have a good working, tuned, tested configuration. Post Plots showing how the Servos are performing.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?

is the Dynomotion controll as confusing as it seems?