Need Help! Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog - Page 2


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Thread: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

  1. #21
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Hi Charles,

    Replacing the resolvers with encoders shouldn't have had any effect on the Drives. Something else must have changed. I would take a step back, electrically disconnect Kanalog and the Encoders, and go back to to 1.5V battery test until that works.

    Maybe you have the X tach crossed to the Z Amplifier and vice versa?

    You might disconnect the tachs and short the tach inputs and reference inputs to force 0V to the drives to see how it behaves. I would expect no or minimal motor drive.

    I'm not familiar with those Drives.you would need to research and find a manual and specifications.

    Hard to say about the sparks. A runaway is probably putting high currents to the motors. Sounds like you may need new brushes.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  2. #22
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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Thanks Tom. I have taken the step back, disconnected everything. Working with only x axis in stand alone mode. I am in contact with Mike Kilroy, who knows these drives and motors. We are working through some things. Will update you when I know more.



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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    With the patient help of Mike Kilroy, It was discovered that there was a 5 volt difference in grounding between the drives (both) and the machine. This caused a 5 volt error in several test points on the drive cards, which caused motor run away and tripped breakers. After Mike supplied me with the most current manual, taught me how to use it, and coaxed me through many, many tests, we found that all that was needed was a proper ground from the drives to the machine. It seems that the drives were originally grounding through the factory GE2000 control. Now all appears to be well and I am ready to resume Kflop/Kanalog setup.



  4. #24
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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Back to setting up Kflop/Kanalog. Servos work Fwd and Rev with battery. Connected the Z-axis encoder cable A+,A-,B+,B- to JP1, index + & - to JP2, ground to JP6, and +5V to JP8. Connected Z-axis servo drive output and ground to JP11. Z motor is drifting slowly towards lathe spindle. Axis screen shows encoder counting in negative direction. From Console screen I can move z axis both directions, although minus command moves away from spindle (DAC1=-20). In Step Response screen, Zero,100, Move results in axis moving towards spindle without stopping by itself. I have to hit servo Disable to stop it. Axis screen shows Position counting to and past Destination. Limit switches are connected to JP15 opto 2&3, bits 138,139. If I check Watch Limit boxes, bits 138,139, Kill Motor Drive, Move command will not work. I'm sure I have something wrong, but have not been able to find it. Have read and read other threads, Wiki, and manuals. Trying to get one axis working before connecting anything else.



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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Hi Charles,

    Connected Z-axis servo drive output and ground to JP11. Z motor is drifting slowly towards lathe spindle.
    You might read this.


    Z motor is drifting slowly towards lathe spindle
    I don't understand what this means.


    In Step Response screen, Zero,100, Move results in axis moving towards spindle without stopping by itself. I have to hit servo Disable to stop it. Axis screen shows Position counting to and past Destination.
    Please post your Filters Screen, Configuration Screen, and Step Response Screen with a Plot of Command, Position, Output vs Time of the 100 count move.


    Limit switches are connected to JP15 opto 2&3, bits 138,139. If I check Watch Limit boxes, bits 138,139, Kill Motor Drive, Move command will not work.
    Do the bits change properly on the Digital IO Screen? What state are they normally? What state when hit? Do you have "Stop when low" selected?

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Thanks for answering Tom.

    I should have said the Z axis is slowly drifting towards the spindle. I adjusted the speed pot on the drive and greatly reduced the drift. I have to figure out how to post screen prints. It is not plotting. Limit switches work when "Stop When Low" is checked. Bits do change properly. Switches are NC. Open when hit.



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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    I have to figure out how to post screen prints
    One way is to:

    #1 - Select a Screen
    #2 Alt-Print Screen (copies current window to clipboard)
    #3 open Paint.exe
    #4 paste
    #5 crop
    #6 save as *.png file
    #7 cnczone - Insert Image
    #8 from computer - browse
    #9 upload files


    It is not plotting.
    Not sure what you mean. No red, blue, green lines?

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Requested screen prints

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Nothing in the plot area. I'm sure it's me.



  10. #30
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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Well it seems you are very Zoomed in and at someplace in negative time. Left-Click Drag will zoom in. You must have done that inadvertantly. Right Click on the Plot and select Zoom Out.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog



  12. #32
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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Hi Charles,

    Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog-posfeedback-png

    Seems like classic positive feedback instead of negative feedback. As soon as there is any error, the motor drives the wrong way, error gets worse, quickly saturates output at -40 DAC counts, axis runs away. btw The Output limits at 40 counts is because max error 200 x P Gain 0.2 = 40.

    Try reversing the sign of either the InputGain 0 or OutputGain to have negative feedback. Either one should be stable. Change either one. If the Axis works but moves the wrong direction, change the other instead.

    HTH

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Changed the InputGain to -1. Axis did not visibly move, but it did plot.

    StpResp4.pdf

    Changed the OutputGain to -1, changed InputGain back to 1. Axis did not visibly move, plot is similar.

    StpResp3.pdf



  14. #34
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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Hi Charles,

    Congrats you have Servo !!!

    Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog-working-png

    It is clearly trying to follow the commanded trajectory. See how the red tries to follow the blue?

    A move of 100 counts is probably a tiny move so hard to physically see. What is the resolution of your machine in counts per inch?

    Its nearly unstable and there is some small signal noise or oscillation. It would be helpful if you save and post the raw data. That way we can load, re-plot, zoom in, etc. to better see what is going on.

    The next steps are to make bigger size moves and tune the servo. See here.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Hi Tom,

    Encoders are 4000 CPR. Axis motors are direct drive to .200 IPR ballscrews. I will plot larger moves and post the raw data.



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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Hi Tom,

    I changed the move to 1000 counts. It oscillates. Switching InputGain and OutputGain signs didn't appear to make a difference. See plot. I saved the data. I have to figure out how to post it.

    Thanks

    Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog-stpresp6-png



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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Hi Charles,

    Encoders are 4000 CPR. Axis motors are direct drive to .200 IPR ballscrews
    There is often confusion whether CPR means Quadrature Cycle Per Rev or Quadrature Counts Per Rev. So the Resolution will be either 20000 counts/inch or 80000 counts/inch. I think we chose 4000 cycle/rev so 80000 counts/inch? This is easy to verify by moving ~1 inch and looking if the Position on the Axis Screen changes by ~80000 or ~20000.


    I changed the move to 1000 counts. It oscillates.
    Just needs tuning. I forget what type of Amplifiers you ended up with and whether you have tachometers connected or not. Do you know? It appears like the output is causing acceleration not velocity. Either would be ok but it is good to understand this. You might read this.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Analog drives (amplifiers). Tach feedback from motors. It is possible that the tach wires are switched. Long story. The drives have a temporary jumper to limit current. I think the encoders are 4000 cycles per rev. I will verify this when I have better control.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Analog drives (amplifiers). Tach feedback from motors. It is possible that the tach wires are switched. Long story. The drives have a temporary jumper to limit current. I think the encoders are 4000 cycles per rev. I will verify this when I have better control.



  19. #39
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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    It is possible that the tach wires are switched.
    I think that is unlikely as I would expect a runaway.

    Actually from your plot in post 32 where the output is stuck at 40 DAC counts (0.2V) the Position moves at a fairly constant Velocity. That would indicate the Amplifier is controlling velocity on its own. Otherwise I would expect more continuous gradual acceleration.

    You have a fairly high resolution encoder. This effectively adds gain to the control loop. So try reducing the P Gain by 10X or more to get stability.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog

    Hi Tom,

    As you suggested, I reduced P Gain from 0.2 to 0.02.

    Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog-stpresp7-png

    Changed Move to 10000.

    Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog-stepresp8-png

    Changed Move to 100000

    Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog-stepresp9-png

    Changed P Gain to .002.

    Warner/Swasey QCM-6 lathe with Kflop/Kanalog-stepresp10-png

    Hopefully I kept the screen shots as described. Check the setting boxes to be sure.

    Thanks



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