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  1. #1
    Member jeepguy88's Avatar
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    Smile Lagun FTV3

    Well......Picked up a Lagunmatic 310 knee mill and figured Id give CNC milling a try. Ive gotten pretty far with the help of others. Probably should have started a build thread here, but Ill just start with saying Im a newbie with 0 experience in anything related to anything about to CNC machining. lol.
    Pulled most everything out of the control box and installed a Kflop/Kanalog. I have just one axis servo driver plugged in at the moment. I thought just getting the motor to talk to the computer and the computer to talk to the motor was going to be difficult but Ive ran into another wall that makes my head hurt with servo tuning. Still a lot to do but the current hurdle is servo tuning. Dont really understand much here, but playing and poking around kmotion for the24hrs. I feel like Ive made a little progress. When I first turned the power on the servo motor was just doing its own thing. Ive got it making one rotation and back to 0 with the step response screen. Pretty exiting, goes back to 0 everytime . Im probably far from it being ok, but maybe someone could tell me a little more about what Im doing here and what I should be doing.
    This servo motor has a 2000 count encoder.

    Probably a different problem for later,but the belt drive is 1:1 and 1 revolution moves the table .200. No idea where to input table travel in relation to servo revolutions

    Heres a screen shot of how far Ive gotten.
    Thanks in advance

    Similar Threads:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lagun FTV3-servotune1-jpg  


  2. #2
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Hi JeepGuy,

    That looks like a good start with only P again.

    Have you read our Servo Tuning Overview in our wiki?

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  3. #3
    Member jeepguy88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Hi Tom!
    Thanks for the reply. I have read the servo tuning guide, a couple times.
    I read through alot of your posts and through the Tree build. I feel really bad about asking for help, Im sure your tired of explaining this to people who dont understand. lol. Im in way over my head sorta speak. Watched some youtube of guys with stepper motors and benchtop cncmills and how they installed them, I was like that looks easy enough. Somehow I ened up with a cnc kneemill, with servomotors. Slightly more complex. Thats how I got myself into this. Overall its been fun learning about a world I know nothing about.

    Im not sure if I have velocity or torque amplifers. They are Servo Dynamics 1525
    Im guessing velocity. As I got some results with only P gain.
    Dont understand the filters, but maybe not applicable to my application?
    After reading the Tuning overview again I see table movement is in toolsetup screen. I have yet to explore that area yet. Ill save that for later.



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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepguy88 View Post
    Watched some youtube of guys with stepper motors and benchtop cncmills and how they installed them, I was like that looks easy enough. Somehow I ened up with a cnc kneemill, with servomotors. Slightly more complex.
    You made the right decision. Those guys might be up and running now, but your machine will be in a whole other class when you get it running.

    May take a little more time and money now, but no amount of time and money in upgrades will ever make a stepper driven benchtop machine come close to a knee mill with servos. Just be patient and you will have a much better machine in the end.



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    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Hi JeepGuy,

    Did you understand and do Step #3 and determine the maximum P gain that was stable?

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  6. #6
    Member jeepguy88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Hi JeepGuy,

    Did you understand and do Step #3 and determine the maximum P gain that was stable?
    Understand....Yes? The maximum speed for my servo that the system can handle translating and applying output to the servo?
    At a P gain of 2.8 or maybe it was 3, the servo motor wigs out and I get a voltage fault on the servo driver and have to reset.



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    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Hi JeepGuy,

    It isn’t entirely clear that an unstable servo caused the “wig out” and not just more aggressive motion and corrections. I will assume it was.

    Servo instability is like an inexperienced driver that makes over corrections that results in ever increasing weaving until a crash.

    Now that the errors are below a few hundred counts you might set the Max Following Error to something like 1000 so that any instability will quickly cause a disable rather than a crash or amplifier fault.

    Please now do Step 4

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  8. #8
    Member jeepguy88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Not sure what a max unstable D gain looks like.

    Poking around, not sure what I did, but now when I hit the move button in Set response it seems to disable the servo now. I dont think it was the max following error, but put that back to where it was,didnt seem to help. Thought I put everything back to where it was earlier this morning and still nothing



  9. #9
    Member jeepguy88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    How silly of me, somehow the positve watch limit box got checked. Wasnt me. lol

    Ok back to work.
    Im guessing Im looking at the plot graph for D gain. I added 1. Increased P gain slightly. Any mount of I gain seems to be unstable,

    I thought I read that you like to see .png images, when I upload them as png it turns it to .jpg

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lagun FTV3-st2-jpg  


  10. #10
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Hi JeepGuy,

    Your image is difficult to read. You should be able to save as and upload *.png files.

    You didn't include the IIR Filters Screen. Please add a 2nd order low pass filter as described in the Step #4 Link.

    D Gain values typically need to be 10~100X the P Gain value to have an effect. A value of 1 probably had an insignificant effect. Did you search for the maximum D Gain that is stable?

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  11. #11
    Member jeepguy88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Am I suppose to be watching for something on the plot graph while adding D gain or just finding a maximum like P?

    Had a minor set back yesterday. I accidentally shorted my 5v supply. Ive got 5v's back with a new supply, however Im currently having trouble connecting to the Kflop and I have a green led light on the kanalog board that was not on before. My computer does not recognize the usb input from kflop at the moment.Cant find the kmotion usb in devices.



  12. #12
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Hi JeepGuy,

    Am I suppose to be watching for something on the plot graph while adding D gain or just finding a maximum like P?
    Find maximum similar as P. Increasing D should cause the system to be slower and more stable up to a point then less stable. Proper D gain should allow higher P gain and result in less following error.

    Had a minor set back yesterday. I accidentally shorted my 5v supply. Ive got 5v's back with a new supply, however Im currently having trouble connecting to the Kflop and I have a green led light on the kanalog board that was not on before. My computer does not recognize the usb input from kflop at the moment.Cant find the kmotion usb in devices.
    That doesn’t sound good. Disconnect everything from KFLOP except +5V power and only connect the USB to the PC. If it doesn’t show as a Device in Window’s Device Manager then KFLOP’s USB is likely damaged.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  13. #13
    Member jeepguy88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Just when I was getting somewhere.

    Everything is unpluged from Kflop. 5v and my usb cable connected. The led lights on kflop flash once and turn solid. My computer doesnt reconize the klop. And I cant cant find it in device managers.
    Is it possiable to repair the kflop or do I need to order a new one?
    Kanalog board ok?

    I had my encoders on the same 5v supply for kflop. Wont be doing that again.



  14. #14
    Member Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepguy88 View Post
    I had my encoders on the same 5v supply for kflop. Wont be doing that again.
    That should be the correct way to do it. The 5V supply should be common to both since the signal from the encoders are connected to the Kanalog. Not sure what happened there. But if I recall correctly there is a jumper on the Kflop board that needs to be changed when using an external 5V supply rather than the USB port 5V supply. Check the Kflop documentation.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


  15. #15
    Member jeepguy88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Thanks Jim, always to the rescue. lol Ill try and look through that later today.
    I had the 5v for the encoders exposed. I moved somethings around, didnt notice I bumped something and moved a wire that pushed the +\- for the encoders together. The 5v supply is suppose to have "short protection". It did short that out.



  16. #16
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Hi JeepGuy,

    Only one blink of the LEDs indicates it thinks there isn't any USB connection. You might try a different USB cable, or USB port, or PC.

    The encoders do need to be common GND to KFLOP/Kanalog as Jim describes.

    KFLOP+Kanalog requires more power than USB can supply so an External +5V Supply is required. KFLOP by itself can run from USB.

    Leaving the USB Power Jumper in with External +5V applied feeds back +5V to the PC which is not a good idea and should be avoided but doesn't usually cause a problem.

    Hard to tell if Kanalog is working without a working KFLOP.

    Its not cost effective for us to repair KFLOPs. It may be just the U10 USB interface IC since most of the rest of KFLOP needs to work to light the LEDs. If you want to try repair yourself the part # is:
    FTDI FT245RL DigiKey 768-1011-A-ND

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  17. #17
    Member jeepguy88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    All good info.
    So Kflop lights on are kinda good?
    I tried just the USB and lights would come on, but was not able to connect to the computer. I'll try another cable and computer and see what happens. If that doesnt work, the link for the part you sent is only $4.50. Thats worth a try.



  18. #18
    Member jeepguy88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Different cable, different computer, nothing. Just lights blinking once and then solid. Ill try that part, I dont know if my soldering skills are that good, but worth a shot before I order a new kflop.
    I cant be the first guy to short out the 5v supply.



  19. #19
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Hi JeepGuy,

    So Kflop lights on are kinda good?
    Yes, much of KFLOP (DSP, Boot FLASH, SDRAM, FPGA Configuration) must work for that to occur. But that doesn't mean those might not be partially damaged in some manner.


    I cant be the first guy to short out the 5v supply.
    Shorting the 5V supply would be similar to turning it off. Maybe something else happened or it caused a spark.


    I dont know if my soldering skills are that good
    If you don't have proper hot air soldering tools to remove the 28 pin IC I find cutting all the pins flush with the IC body with a razor blade can then allow you to use a soldering iron to remove each pin separately. Then cleanup the pads with solder wick before installing the new IC.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  20. #20
    Member jeepguy88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lagun FTV3

    Waited all week for that usb interface chip. Was not successful at getting it replaced. Ordered a new kflop. Hope my kanalog is still good....



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