Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversion


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Thread: Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversion

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    Member Dancy's Avatar
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    Default Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversion

    Over the years I have considered replacing the control system on one of my mills. It is a Hitachi Seiki VK45. The main reason is how hard it is to get good support for the software on this machine. I have spent a couple of hours reading information about Dynomotion's systems and have some questions unanswered so here goes.

    I will start with my biggest concern. Windows does lots of things without asking. Stupid things that interrupt most any program you might try to run. Things like file indexing, antivirus searches and updates. Last thing I need on a machine that powerful is an interruption in the middle of a sensitive operation. How do you resolve this?

    Keshka Kotera
    Summerville, Oregon

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    Default Re: Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversio

    Hi Keshka,

    I will start with my biggest concern. Windows does lots of things without asking. Stupid things that interrupt most any program you might try to run. Things like file indexing, antivirus searches and updates. Last thing I need on a machine that powerful is an interruption in the middle of a sensitive operation. How do you resolve this?
    Real-time operations are handled by our KFLOP Controller so Windows doesn't need to be real-time responsive. I'm not aware of Windows background functions ever being an issue.

    Regarding Windows Updates: There are a number of ways those can be handled in order to not interfere with a Job: Disabled, set active hours, pause until specified date, etc.

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversio

    Tom, sounds like a good solution that the Kflop is running the show and windows is simply and interface to monitor/modify its action.

    My mill has good solid servos, drives and power. The Sanyo Denki drives use the standard +/- 10v for velocity and have high quality glass greys encoders. The spindle drive is Fanuc. I have not studied the interface on it in detail but they are quite common so am assuming someone has been there done that. I also see that you can cascade Konnect enough times that it should cover my input/output needs.

    Have you any examples of machine conversions of mill in this class? It's rated at 22KVA and 7.5kw spindle.



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    Default Re: Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversio

    found this one:




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    Default Re: Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversio

    looks like I need to go study your software a bit (grin)



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    Default Re: Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversio

    Hi Dancy,

    My mill has good solid servos, drives and power. The Sanyo Denki drives use the standard +/- 10v for velocity
    You might try this simple test. To have +/-10V Analog and differential encoder inputs you would add our Kanalog Option.



    and have high quality glass greys encoders
    I'm not sure what "glass greys encoders" are. Are they linear scales of rotary? Do they have differential outputs?

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversio

    btw that video lead me to this video where KMotionCNC is used to make a cool part on a different mill for their very cool "Joker" motorcycle. I wish I spoke Russian. Its at the 20min mark.




    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversio

    encoders use six signal lines Phase A, Phase B and one rotation to provide count and direction information. They are rotary and made by Sanyo Sumtak.



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    Default Re: Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversio

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancy View Post
    Tom, sounds like a good solution that the Kflop is running the show and windows is simply and interface to monitor/modify its action.

    My mill has good solid servos, drives and power. The Sanyo Denki drives use the standard +/- 10v for velocity and have high quality glass greys encoders. The spindle drive is Fanuc. I have not studied the interface on it in detail but they are quite common so am assuming someone has been there done that. I also see that you can cascade Konnect enough times that it should cover my input/output needs.

    Have you any examples of machine conversions of mill in this class? It's rated at 22KVA and 7.5kw spindle.
    Ive been using Kflop to control a similar sized machine for few years now. I use the machine nearly everyday and really like it. Kflop is still the best option for a machine like this IMO. You can depend on it to control your machine without any surprises. One Konnect board will probably be enough to control a typical VMC. Thats all I needed, but you always have the option to add more.

    I wouldnt be too quick to assume anything with a fanuc spindle drive. I've heard Fanuc tends to stay away from industry standards, a lot of their stuff will only work with other fanuc stuff. Can be very difficult or impossible to control some of their drives. Worst case scenario you could probably buy a VFD for spindle. The spindle motor will probably work fine on another VFD. Any maybe you might get lucky and get it all to work, but just saying there could be a few headaches. At least your servos/drives are not fanuc, thats a bonus. good luck with it.



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    Default Re: Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversio

    Agree Murray;
    I am not a fan of this VFD. Originally I was running my mill with a rotary phase converter and a three phase variac to balance the power. I know when that Fanuc tries hard moves it creates some nasty power spikes and twice those spikes have killed the drive to the tune of near $3000 in repairs. For something of the class it's supposed to be, I expect better protection and it not fry it's self. I now use a 30kw propane three phase onan generator set for this reason alone and as such my operating expenses have increased more than I would have liked.

    Question for Tom;
    some years back when I first looked into a control upgrade, a competitor utilised a device from Galil to manage much of the control. It's a DMC-4080. Have you ever interfaced the Kflop to something like this (I have one of the expensive little critters). Advantages/disadvantages?

    Keshka



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    Default Re: Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversio

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancy View Post
    Agree Murray;
    I am not a fan of this VFD. Originally I was running my mill with a rotary phase converter and a three phase variac to balance the power. I know when that Fanuc tries hard moves it creates some nasty power spikes and twice those spikes have killed the drive to the tune of near $3000 in repairs. For something of the class it's supposed to be, I expect better protection and it not fry it's self. I now use a 30kw propane three phase onan generator set for this reason alone and as such my operating expenses have increased more than I would have liked.

    Question for Tom;
    some years back when I first looked into a control upgrade, a competitor utilised a device from Galil to manage much of the control. It's a DMC-4080. Have you ever interfaced the Kflop to something like this (I have one of the expensive little critters). Advantages/disadvantages?

    Keshka

    Just to put things in perspective, I'm running my lathe (7.5 KW spindle) on a well balanced 15 HP rotary phase converter and have not had any problems, even when it was Fanuc powered. I'm still using the Fanuc spindle motor but am powering it with a GS3 VFD. I replaced everything else that said Fanuc on it, now using DMM 1.8KW servos for the axis drives.

    There would be no reason to add a Galil DMC 4080 to a Dynomotion system. They both do the same job. It would be redundant. However the DMC-4080 is higher performance and has all of the Kflop/Kanalog features and accessories already built in out of the box. USB, serial, and ethernet interface, 8 axis, 60 I/O, dual encoder inputs on each axis, stepper, PWM, or analog command (selectable for each axis).

    I have a DMC-4080 on one machine in my shop, and run two others on DMC-1846s

    Last edited by Jim Dawson; 09-23-2019 at 09:19 AM.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversio

    ......me thinks I need to send Tom some money for goodies

    (grin)


    really impressed with the support I see everywhere Tom



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Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversion

Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversion

Intro questions - Windows/Kflop/Kanalog and a 17k pound milling machine conversion