Options to drive 24vdc motor


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    Default Options to drive 24vdc motor

    This probably isn't specific to Kflop but I'm looking to add a rotary axis to my saw. I've come across some affordable (surplus) industrial slewing drives (used for solar trackers). These come with a 24vdc motor with the following specs:

    Options to drive 24vdc motor-24vdcslewingmotor-png

    I know that to use the encoder that is already on it I'd need to do single to differential to hook up to Kanalog. But what I'm unsure of is how to drive the motor. I have KAnalog so something that takes +-10vdc would be ideal. Does that exist for these type of motors? I've been told it is a brushless DC motor. Anyone have a recommendation for a motor drive for this? Or am I better off replacing the motor with an AC servo?
    Thanks
    Greg.

    Options to drive 24vdc motor-24vdcmotor-jpg

    Options to drive 24vdc motor-slewing-drive-controller-gearboxes-jpg

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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Options to drive 24vdc motor

    Advanced motion Controls have one in the BE30A8 series that goes down to 20vDC.
    They use ±10vdc analogue input.
    They come up on ebay from time to time also.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Options to drive 24vdc motor

    Also does it have Hall effect tracks either on the encoder or separate type.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Options to drive 24vdc motor

    I’m thinking those are brushed motors.

    Our SnapAmp could drive 4 of those but would be overkill.

    Or something like this “dumb” AMC drive
    https://www.servo2go.com/azb10a4/



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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Options to drive 24vdc motor

    If they are Brushed motor and if a AMC drive I mentioned was purchased, they will also drive a DC brushed just as well.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
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    Default Re: Options to drive 24vdc motor

    Thanks. Those will help point me in the right direction once I get my hands on the motor.
    Greg.



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    Default Re: Options to drive 24vdc motor

    So my head is spinning from reading all the DC servo manuals, as I look for a cheap one on ebay. Analog vs digital, hall/tach/sin/cos/encoder feedback, velocity/torque... lots to learn. The slew drive showed up today. Feel like a kid in a candy store.

    5500 ft lbs output torque should be good. Says the tracking precision is <= 0.17 degree, not sure what that translates to good/bad as far as accuracy. I'm thinking of using a magnetic ring encoder mounted to the table to give true position feedback to Kflop so backlash wont be too much of a concern. Turns at a blistering 0.1 RPM as geared. I'd like to get that up to 1 perhaps 2 RPM for rapids.The motor has several reduction sections in it. The seller included a dead motor so I can take that apart and see how it goes together, hoping I can remove one of the reducing sections without losing too much torque that the included motor wont turn the table with a load on it.

    I purchased 3 because the deal was pretty good ($550CDN - $415US each), now I'm thinking I could use one for a 'lathe' like axis but one thing at a time.

    Some pictures:

    Options to drive 24vdc motor-slewdelivery-jpg

    Options to drive 24vdc motor-slewdrive-jpg

    Options to drive 24vdc motor-motor-jpg

    Options to drive 24vdc motor-se12specs-jpg



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    Default Re: Options to drive 24vdc motor

    So how many connections to the motor and encoder?
    Motor 2 or 3?
    Any documentation with the Unit (In English!).?
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Options to drive 24vdc motor

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    So how many connections to the motor and encoder?
    Motor 2 or 3?
    Any documentation with the Unit (In English!).?
    Al.
    Hi Al,

    Sorry -24C in the shop... had a screw that needed to be drilled out and I was avoiding going outside...

    So far no documentation on the motor or encoder.
    I believe it is a brushed motor, 2 wires, here's the pictures:

    case removed:
    Options to drive 24vdc motor-slewmotor_cover_removed-jpg

    insides:
    Options to drive 24vdc motor-slewmotor_insides2-jpg

    brushes:
    Options to drive 24vdc motor-slewmotorbrushes-jpg

    outer:
    Options to drive 24vdc motor-slewmotor_outer-jpg

    encoder end:
    Options to drive 24vdc motor-slewmotor_encoder_end-jpg

    encoder:
    Options to drive 24vdc motor-slewmotor_hallsensor3-jpg

    Options to drive 24vdc motor-slewmotor_hallsensor1-jpg

    Options to drive 24vdc motor-slewmotor_hallsensor2-jpg



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    Default Re: Options to drive 24vdc motor

    DC brushed motor with PM field, the encoder looks like a low res DC + & - with A-B outputs referenced to the DC -ve.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Options to drive 24vdc motor

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    DC brushed motor with PM field, the encoder looks like a low res DC + & - with A-B outputs referenced to the DC -ve.
    Al.
    Hi Al,

    This is what I found on the motors manufacturers web site:
    Options to drive 24vdc motor-encoderspec-jpg

    http://www.dongyangmotor.com/upload/...ic_Encoder.pdf

    I wonder if such a low res encoder is even worth using for feedback to the servo drive/kflop? I'm guessing low speed control would suffer.

    One thing I'm a little confused on with the DC drives is what mode to set them up in for use with Kflop.

    I think after reading a few dc drive manuals I'm best to set the drive up in torque mode with no encoder feedback to the drive. Then in this case since the included encoder is very low resolution, plus single ended, it's probably better to have an encoder measuring the table rotation. Then feed that to kflop. Sound right?

    Thanks
    Greg.



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    Gold Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Options to drive 24vdc motor

    Hi Greg,

    Says the tracking precision is <= 0.17 degree, not sure what that translates to good/bad as far as accuracy.
    I think that works out to 0.030inch position error at a 10inch radius.

    I think after reading a few dc drive manuals I'm best to set the drive up in torque mode with no encoder feedback to the drive. Then in this case since the included encoder is very low resolution, plus single ended,
    8 ppr would be very low resolution.

    Can you determine the overall mechanical reduction? I saw 78:1 ? But if you are only seeing 0.1RPM I would expect much higher reduction.

    What are your requirements for precision?

    it's probably better to have an encoder measuring the table rotation. Then feed that to kflop. Sound right?
    Measuring the table rotation directly would likely require a very high resolution encoder depending on your requirements.

    If you feedback the table position you will likely also need some feedback from the motor shaft to have a stable system.



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