My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit - Page 2


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Thread: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

  1. #13
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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    HI Murray,

    Nice job with the Fadal!

    Thanks for making your C files available. I have used some great examples from your code.

    I have a question about your tool change program.

    You use Requested tool = persist.UserData[6]

    In my setup KmotionCNC is using persist.UserData[9] to pass the requested tool.

    How did you get kmotioncnc to pass tool data in 6

    Andrew

    Andrew


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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by kn6za View Post
    HI Murray,

    Nice job with the Fadal!

    Thanks for making your C files available. I have used some great examples from your code.
    No problem, glad to hear its helping you out.


    I have a question about your tool change program.

    You use Requested tool = persist.UserData[6]

    In my setup KmotionCNC is using persist.UserData[9] to pass the requested tool.

    How did you get kmotioncnc to pass tool data in 6

    Andrew
    When you configure the action for M6 in kmotioncnc you specify what variable the tool number gets passed too. See the attached pic. Good luck with it.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-toolchange-jpg  


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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Thanks Murray!

    Andrew


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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Hey Murray,

    I just purchased a 1989 4020 Fadal! the control works but am not so keen on learning the ins and outs of a 30 year old text based computer system that I will likely want to replace at some time in the future....

    I have been looking at the Kflop or the Centroid Oak boards.

    The Kflop is MUCH less expensive and I like the free nature of the software without being nickle and dimed for every option.. I am familiar with C. So very much leaning towards the Kflop if I do retrofit the machine.

    Do you think the Flop enhances the machine enough to justify the 100s of hours of work? If I keep the existing DC motors and amps the cost is very reasonable.. $500 for the Kflop + Kanalog and probably less than $1000 in parts total for the complete conversion. Centroid Oak with software options for tool changer would be about $2500 total. Resale value is not a concern as this machine is not going anywhere.. Mainly interested in usability for all types of CNC work, I want to do complex 3d stuff at some point but its not a priority.

    Do you have any pictures of how the DC motor drivers were modified? I saw your note about a wire being soldered further down the control loop etc..

    I am thinking I could save much of the software setup time by using your config if you will share Do you have the newest versions online somewhere?

    I built a 4'x3' 130W laser cutter with Panasonic servos from scratch last year so I realize the amount of work it takes to set something like this up.
    http://hilo90mhz.com/laser-cutter/

    Thanks,
    Chester

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-img_20180830_131007-jpg   My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-img_20190318_113450-jpg   My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-img_20180904_180345-jpg  
    Last edited by hilo90mhz; 03-26-2019 at 12:54 AM.


  5. #17
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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Im still very happy with the Kflop setup. It will be tons of work to convert as you mentioned but it is a great setup when its done. If you already know C, sounds like the way to go. Its awesome to be able to customize your machine to do whatever you want with C programming. I can share the latest revisions of my files if you want them.

    Honestly i've never used the stock control so cant really say too much about it. People say it will get the job done, but doesn't seem like a real nice interface to me. And I doubt it would be as accurate as kflop at any speed. Most of my prior experience is with a late 90's fanuc VMC and a Mazak 510c II. The kflop controller is WAY ahead of the fanuc in every way you can compare it, light years ahead. And In many ways I like it better then the Mazak.

    Im working full time with this machine now in a job shop and its been working great. Does everything I need. Mostly basic 2.5d stuff, some 4 axis and the occasional 3d part, whatever comes through the door. Only slight complaint would be that it doesnt seem to smooth poor quality 3d toolpaths quite as well as the Mazak I used to run, but I think Tom is working on an improvement and honestly its a very minor complaint. 95+% of 3d stuff runs just fine.

    I think if you can afford the time its definitely worth doing. I would go the same way again for sure if I were to do it all over again.



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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Thanks for the insight! - I am probably going with the Kflop option.

    Is this your machine on the Dynomotion YouTube channel? It sure looks awesome if it is!

    I just found the Zip files you shared on the first page of this post that is quite a bit of info.

    LinuxCNC +Mesa is the other option I am considering, but it seems like it would always have more latency in the servo control loop vs the Kflop all firmware system controlling motion.

    The Kflop user interface is a little rough around the edges, I have seen the editor but there is only so much it can do it seems.

    Do you have any pictures of where the analog torque control wire is on your axis drives? that would help a ton

    Also a new copy of your Kflop software setup would be amazing

    I am very impressed with your diagrams showing how you seem to have used all the hardware sensors on the machine - I don't think most people are as thorough in their conversions.

    The code in your ToolChange.c file is very well commented and looks great!

    www.hilo90mhz.com


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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Yes that is my machine on youtube. Glad you like it, thanks. Heres a pic of the signal wire on the servo drive board. Your drives may be different. Some of the older fadals had much finer pitch "inch" ballscrews and smaller motors and drives. Mine is a 1994 and has the larger motors, drives and much coarser metric screws.

    The previous owner of my machine cut a resistor from the board and fed signal directly into the part of the circuit right after the loop gain potentiometer. The manual for the GA4568PA (my drives are actually GA4568EA) drive describes the loop gain pot on page 10 as being able to reduce current to zero if turned fully clockwise and the diagram on page 41 shows the loop gain pot as being close to the end of the pre amp. So it appears this point is used to bypass all the velocity mode preamp and feed signal directly into the power amplifier. Im not 100% certain but it appears like this might be the only modification needed to change the drive to torque mode.

    I've heard good things about linux but for me that would be a whole new thing to learn as well. I like how kflop has its own dedicated hardware and just uses a regular old PC to send it instructions. I wouldnt look at mach or anything else to control a machine like this.

    Im fairly busy at the moment but ill post all the current files someday for you if you go ahead with it. Good luck with it.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-20190326_224815-jpg  


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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Heres some 3d parts I made today. These ran perfectly and turned out really nice. These are parts of an intake for a turbo charged snowmobile.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-20190327_221310-jpg   My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-20190327_221443-jpg  


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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Thanks for that image of your analog driver boards - I think I have three different types of driver board in my machine, one GA4568EA? amp that looks like yours, one of the AMP-0015 AMC amps and two of some older GA4568SE-1 ?? type amp boards, so quite the mix-match. But at least all the of the Glentek boards look very similar as far as potentiometer locations and I can probably figure out the correct feed points. I can probably use the AMP-0015 as the 4th axis amp(maybe that's the location its already in) - I don't have a 4th axis mechanism at this time. I also do not have the machine here yet to check the part numbers, just some pictures taken a month ago..

    Yeah I agree MACH3 is not an option at all, I used it on a sherline mini mill via parallel port awhile ago and it was not reliable - and the dedicated hardware for motion separate from the PC is what brought me to the Kflop originally.

    I wonder if Kflop 2.0 is in the works anytime soon.. The main processor on the board is at end of life by TI (unless its been upgraded from the one listed in the manual) and the board is about 10 years old I think?

    Those intake parts look awesome! Video of something like that being machined on your 4th axis would be cool to see. Maybe a timelapse?

    Do you have any type of probing on the machine?

    I think I am going to at least try the CNC88 control now - I have learned I don't have to buy anything to run it via the serial port at 9600 baud as it should work with a USB to serial converters I already have. And found out about the free NClink software to send it files. But when something breaks(just a matter of time) or I feel the existing control is limiting me I am pretty sure this is the best option. Nearest other option is $8k for Calmotion - Kflop is possibly better than the Calmotion once its done, Kflop is more labor to setup than Calmotion, but much less $ - but I really don't have any experience with either to make a direct comparison.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-amps_closeup-jpg  
    www.hilo90mhz.com


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