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    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
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    Default Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    ..........

    I was able to find a Tree Journeyman 325 Knee Mill with issues on it's Delta20 (Dynapath) controller.
    I do have a 10hp. three phase motor that I will be setting up as a rotary phase converter to power this three phase machine.
    I purchased this machine for $1000 and it is now in the garage ready for the retrofit.


    Here are a few pictures of this machine: Here


    This retrofit will be done with the Dynomotion:
    Kflop Controller
    Kanalog Expansion Board for KFLOP

    On the Dynomotion WIKI support page there is:
    under the support--> wiring diagram schematic for the Tree 325
    which has a two page PDF schematic made by Rick_B.

    The person who made this two page Schematic has successfully retrofit his Tree 325 with the existing servos/powersupply and was kind enough to share this information.
    I am sure these pages make sense to many or you; however, I have much to learn before I can look at them and say, "great, now I know exactly what to do".

    Really going to need help here .....

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    .....

    Similar Threads:


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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Congratulations on the new purchase! Looks like a dandy machine to retrofit. I think you made the right decision rather then wasting time with the taig. Thats a big upgrade. Good luck with it.



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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    001.......

    "Congratulations" ... Well, we will see just how this works out to see if I am blessed or cursed.

    I have many questions on where to start and I am hoping to get the needed guidance on this forum to make this whole thing happen.

    I have no manuals or schematics for this machine, as you can see I am off to a very weak start.

    Questions:

    1.) Is there anybody reading this thread that would know where I can get or willing to share the manuals/schematics for the existing wiring?

    2.) Wouldn't it be best to start this rebuild with a new single phase power supply since I will be using the Kflop & Kanalog boards and all the existing components run on 120V or less?


    .......
    001.......



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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterTheWolf View Post
    .......
    001.......

    "Congratulations" ... Well, we will see just how this works out to see if I am blessed or cursed.

    I have many questions on where to start and I am hoping to get the needed guidance on this forum to make this whole thing happen.

    I have no manuals or schematics for this machine, as you can see I am off to a very weak start.

    Questions:

    1.) Is there anybody reading this thread that would know where I can get or willing to share the manuals/schematics for the existing wiring?

    2.) Wouldn't it be best to start this rebuild with a new single phase power supply since I will be using the Kflop & Kanalog boards and all the existing components run on 120V or less?


    .......
    001.......

    Are you thinking about powering the entire machine with single phase or just parts of the controller?



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    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    1.) Is there anybody reading this thread that would know where I can get or willing to share the manuals/schematics for the existing wiring?
    Like I said before in Rick B's comments on his YouTube Video he kindly provided a link to a professional quality re-drawn schematic for his machine. And also now in our wiki. I believe it shows much of the original wiring that he was able to use.

    I'd also suggest as a first step that you test that you can move the motors by applying a test voltage to the Amplifier inputs. See our wiki here:
    Kanalog Hardware Info - Dynomotion


    HTH
    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    I was thinking it may be easier for me to understand what I am doing if I start with the single phase power supply for the controller/drives/servos and then concern myself with the spindle/VFD three phase motor after I have the axis moving.
    I am confused enough with where to start on this project and when I look at the existing cabinet of electronics … I don’t know what to keep and what will get pulled. If I were to just start with a new a single phase power supply, then I don’t have to try and figure out the existing three phase power supply and what wires to use. I think it may also be easier to get help if I am using a power supply that I have some documentation for.
    I do know that RickB, who has successfully made this retrofit on a Tree325, did use the existing three phase power supply. So, I believe his well made schematics may reflect that.



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    Quote Originally Posted by mmurray70 View Post
    Are you thinking about powering the entire machine with single phase or just parts of the controller?




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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    Tom,
    Please be patient with me on this project, I have very much to learn.
    I assume this test can only take place after I have I connect the Kflop/Kanalog to the servos?
    My first step in this project will be to get one axis moving, as you suggested. I do not have the Kflop/Kanalog boards yet. I will be placing my order tonight.
    Can I assume I will need to purchase the cables separately to connect the Kflop/Kanalog together?
    If you have a “best read first” to get my first servo motor connect once these boards come in, please point me to it and I will read and read over again until they come in.
    Thanks,

    .....
    ......


    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    ....

    I'd also suggest as a first step that you test that you can move the motors by applying a test voltage to the Amplifier inputs. See our wiki here:
    Kanalog Hardware Info - Dynomotion


    HTH
    Regards




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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterTheWolf View Post
    .....
    ......

    I was thinking it may be easier for me to understand what I am doing if I start with the single phase power supply for the controller/drives/servos and then concern myself with the spindle/VFD three phase motor after I have the axis moving.
    I am confused enough with where to start on this project and when I look at the existing cabinet of electronics … I don’t know what to keep and what will get pulled. If I were to just start with a new a single phase power supply, then I don’t have to try and figure out the existing three phase power supply and what wires to use. I think it may also be easier to get help if I am using a power supply that I have some documentation for.
    I do know that RickB, who has successfully made this retrofit on a Tree325, did use the existing three phase power supply. So, I believe his well made schematics may reflect that.

    .....
    .....
    So you do plan on reusing existing motors and drives right?

    It looks like ricks drives are powered from a transformer thats connected to a single phase (R and S) of the three phase supply. See bottom left of first page here: http://www.dynomotion.com/wiki/index..._by_Rick_B.pdf You may be able to connect single phase 240 to R and S for now and run everything except spindle drive and coolant pump. I would probably disconnect all power to spindle drive for now if you do this. There is a 24v transformer that connects to R and T, you should be able to move this to R and S too so it will all run from a single phase.

    Its hard to know exactly what to keep when starting out. Try and study as much as you can about the existing components before you tear it apart. Dont worry much about the old circuit boards of the controller, but try and understand what each contactor and overload does, try and figure out as much wiring to and from the servo drives as possible, those kind of things. Make some notes. Bit by bit it will start to come together and then make a decision on what to gut out of it. Hang on to the stuff you pull out until your completely finished just in case.

    Post some pics of your existing electronics



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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    Thanks mmurray70 ............

    Yes ... I will use the existing power supply.
    I hope to get my 10hp three phase rotary phase converter up and going this weekend.
    I used it about 15 years ago on a Bridgeport Boss Series 1, sold that to to my brother-in-law for $675 many years ago ... he is still using it today on the existing controller/stepper drives.
    He got a deal on it.

    I will start taking high-resolution pictures of the electronics and get them up my web site.
    I ordered some wire marker labels and will start marking/labeling wires accordingly.
    Thanks again for the starting sequence suggestions. It seems not so overwhelming when I read your posts.

    .....
    ......



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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Please be patient with me on this project, I have very much to learn.
    No rush from our end

    I assume this test can only take place after I have I connect the Kflop/Kanalog to the servos?
    Actually no. The idea is to use the battery to mimic a simple fixed test voltage. If that works as expected then the command voltage from KFLOP/Kanalog will likely work.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    Tom,

    For this to work, would have to have the existing controller powered up?

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    ....

    [QUOTE=TomKerekes;
    Actually no. The idea is to use the battery to mimic a simple fixed test voltage. If that works as expected then the command voltage from KFLOP/Kanalog will likely work.
    Regards[/QUOTE]



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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    ....

    My Kflop/Kanalog boards arrived …. Thanks Dynomotion.

    I was able to resurrect an existing 10hp. Rotary Converter I used 15 years ago on the Bridgeport Boss Series I. I spend a few hours today getting it connect and ready to try and run this machine on 3-Phase. I have yet to try it … hopefully to tomorrow.
    In any case here is my update to the ongoing pictures / videos.
    However, I may not have the wiring in house to make the connection.

    mmurray70 , I also hope to get some picture of the inside electronics tomorrow.

    ....
    ....



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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Well no. The main idea of the test is to prove that you can make the motors move without the original controller. This requires that the amplifiers have power, are enabled, and receive a command voltage (the battery+resistor) at the right place. If the original controller was somehow involved in turning on power or enabling the drives then the motors won't move as you apply the command voltage. In that case you might try with the original controller on (assuming it is available and still works) to see if the motors move, and if so, track down what else is required to make the amplifiers work. Of course you will need to disconnect where the original controller applies the command voltage so you can apply the battery+resistor voltage.

    HTH

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    ....

    I have taken pictures of the existing Tree 325 Electronic in the Right-Hand side Cabinet and the Back Cabinet before I start this retrofit as I am sure I will need help with the wiring to the Kflop / Kanalog boards.

    Here are the links to pictures:

    Right-Hand Side Cabinet

    Back Cabinet

    .....
    .....



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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Peter that VFD is a replacement. And its a 10HP VFD, your machine is 5hp right? Its very common for people to run 3ph VFDS double in size off a single phase supply to avoid using phase converters, only downside is its very expensive to do this. Its possible the previous owner had this machine running single phase, or was planning to do so. You may be able to avoid a phase converter entirely on your machine. Can you post pic of spindle motor tag? Machine obviously has been tinkered with, none of the VFD control wires are even connected.

    I would think your probably safe to pull that whole chassis of circuit boards from the old controller. Trace each cable and eliminate anything not needed and label anything you keep. Probably will want to keep most everything else. Servo drives are above obviously, Im not sure about the three transformer looking things to the left of the servo drives. The thing in pic 8 is an EMI filter probably to filter the power to the old controller.



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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi Peter,

    Here is my guess at where the Velocity Command Input to the amplifiers is:

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-ampvelocitycommand-jpg

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    ......

    mmurray70, I would really like to eliminate the 3-phase Rotary converter and use the VFD (off single phase if possible) for the spindle motor only.
    I will try and get a picture of the spindle motor tag. As far as the all the unattached wires in the VFD, the last owner told me that these should be all labeled accordingly to connect to the VFD bus. I have not had a chance to verify this yet.
    I believe I have just about everything in place to try and connect this to the 3-Phase rotary convert and see if it will come up. I had to put in a ground rod in outside to connect the ground of the machine to.

    ....
    .....

    Quote Originally Posted by mmurray70 View Post
    ... .. You may be able to avoid a phase converter entirely on your machine. Can you post pic of spindle motor tag? Machine obviously has been tinkered with, none of the VFD control wires are even connected.

    I would think your probably safe to pull that whole chassis of circuit boards from the old controller. Trace each cable and eliminate anything not needed and label anything you keep. Probably will want to keep most everything else. Servo drives are above obviously, Im not sure about the three transformer looking things to the left of the servo drives. The thing in pic 8 is an EMI filter probably to filter the power to the old controller.




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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    .....

    Tom,

    I know this is clear to you what exactly needs to be done; however, I am still unsure. I will try to educate myself some more and then once I think I know what I am doing I will check back for accuracy.
    Thanks,

    ....
    .....


    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Hi Peter,

    Here is my guess at where the Velocity Command Input to the amplifiers is:

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-ampvelocitycommand-jpg

    Regards




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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterTheWolf View Post
    ....
    mmurray70, I would really like to eliminate the 3-phase Rotary converter and use the VFD (off single phase if possible) for the spindle motor only.
    .
    Well its not just the spindle motor only, the entire machine should be able to run off single phase if the spindle drive works out. The rest of the machine appears to run off just one of the three phases (which is the same as single phase). So single phase 240 should power your servo drives fine. Only other thing three phase looks to be the coolant pump. And i i would just replace that rather then have to mess with a phase converter personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterTheWolf View Post
    ....
    I will try and get a picture of the spindle motor tag. As far as the all the unattached wires in the VFD, the last owner told me that these should be all labeled accordingly to connect to the VFD bus. I have not had a chance to verify this yet.
    I believe I have just about everything in place to try and connect this to the 3-Phase rotary convert and see if it will come up. I had to put in a ground rod in outside to connect the ground of the machine to.
    .....
    Most of those small control wires that are labeled at the VFD will likely have to go. You will need to run new wires from Kanalog. You will probably end up with 5 wires to control the VFD, a CW signal, CCW signal, a common for these signals, and an analog 0-10V signal to control speed and maybe an enable signal too. All these will connect to Kanalog outputs, and its a good idea to connect a fault line back to Kanalog inputs to tell Kflop to shut things down if anything goes wrong with spindle drive like an overload.

    Looking at Ricks diagram, it looks like the original drive had encoder feedback. The drive you has is newer technology and should run decent with no feedback at all. But keep these wires for the encoder tucked away for possible fine tuning down the road. These encoder signals can also be connected to kanalog to display RPM, do rigid tapping, setup spindle as a servo etc.



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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    mmurray70, Base on what I understand from the specs on the Durapluse AC Drive - VFD (Model: GS3-2010), this drive will only run on input of 3-phase. Spec Link
    Wouldn't this mean that I would have purchase a new VFD with a single phase input for the 5hp spindle motor? As you said below ... they are expensive. This may fall low on the priority budget list.

    I have not been able to get to a readable picture of the servo tag yet; however, based on what I have seen from other J325 owners, I think I should have a similar servos since these motors are Baldor.
    Here is a picture of of the servo motor tag from another user of the J325. Server Tag Link

    I am going to need some help in choosing a AC/DC replacement power supply for these servos.

    I was thinking of this power supply: "PS-15N80R5R12" from here.
    Power Supply Specs
    and I was hoping it was be able to power the Kflop/Kanalog boards as well.

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