Tree325 Retrofit Started

[PeterTheWolf]

Peter heres a pic of my machine with a Konnect board mounted directly below Kanalog with a short ribbon cable.

It is handy to have all those extra inputs and outputs but you might be able to get by without it on your machine with no toolchanger. Id try and get the basics working with what you have now, and once your understand controlling inputs and outputs a little better you can plan everything you want to do with the machine and see if you need to add it or not.

Probably easiest to use those cheap chinese solid state relays that you see for sale everywhere (ebay, etc). They should work on Kanalog opto outs shouldnt they Tom?

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Thanks mmurray70,
Visual aids really help me understand more clearly. I think your suggestion is best for me ... get the basic things work first and then add the Konnect. I do not have the electronic insight as many you who have been answering my posts. It takes me weeks/months to get something done that you man most likely can do in weekend. I just do not have anybody to ask about this retrofit expect those on this forum and I do not want to burn anything up before I get it all working.

As far as the cheap solid state relays go ... is this what you were referring too that would work for now?

Is it this "Trigger Current of 5mA" that will allow me to use this with Kanalog?

Link

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J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
KANALOG Mounted & Connected
Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters


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[PeterTheWolf]

Another option are the small DIN rail interface relays, which only take around 10mA to power the coil.
For an example, here's the last ones I used from RS - https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/inter...dules/6529377/

Thanks M_C,

I will looked around at some of the local suppliers for similar relays; however, by the time I purchase 3-4 quality relays like this it would most likely be better to put that $$$ towards the Konnect.

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J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
KANALOG Mounted & Connected
Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters


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[PeterTheWolf]

I think I understand, but by ICON relay, do you mean the ICRE relay contacts shown on the diagram?....

M_C,

Actually no, I mean 1CON ... this is the main relay that feeds the servo amps with the 115VAC it needs to enable the drives.



Page1 on the Tree Schematic



Page5 on the Tree Schematic

So essentially, to enable the drive output, you need to apply 24VDC to 203, then momentarily trigger 214 with 24VDC?
Personally, I would remove the ICRE latch from the circuit, so the circuit needs a continuous enable feed. Instead of 204 and 206 going via the ICRE contacts, I would connect them to a new relay that is controlled by the SWE FET driver on the Kanalog to prevent anything critical from moving until the KFlop/Kanalog has booted (I always have this as part of the E-stop loop).
I would then add another relay controlled by the KFlop, which enables the circuit, by feeding power to 203.

Excess errors, is typically just another way of saying over travel.

Your suggestions, I am sure is easy for you to do; however, until I gain more understanding it most likely would confuse me more than I tend to be now.

Looking at the diagram, 258 is an input, so it needs connected to an opto in. (switch to the opto +, with the opto- connected to 0v)
And 235 is also an input from the release switch, so the same as above applies.
You then need to wire in a relay to output 24VDC to 219, and then have that relay controlled by some programming in the KFlop, so provided the above two inputs are active, it powers the relay to release the drawbar. That leaves the relay interlock in place to prevent drawbar being activated with the spindle running.

I really appreciate you willing to take the time to understand where I am at with this machine and then offering advice to make it better. What you are suggesting is what I would like to do. Let me think on this and review things to see if I completely understand.

Right now I think I have everything functioning except the Spindle via VFD.
I think my next step will be to try and get it working and then go back and start making the changes, as you suggested, to get this machine controlled more by KFLOP/Kanalog as that will be another learning curve for me.



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J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
KANALOG Mounted & Connected
Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters


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[PeterTheWolf]

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I could really use some help on knowing what wires from the VFD I would connect to KFLOP/Kanalog to start with to get the spindle motor working.

I tried to put together the information I know so far in this HTML link for ease of reference for those (Tom) willing to help get me get started on connecting up my spindle correctly to KFLOP/Kanalog.

The wire numbers in these images on this link are the wire numbers that corresponds to the Tree 325 schematic, which I also linked for ease of reference.

And I would gladly provide any other information (if I have it) if it would help.

Information for VFD existing wiring LINK.

Thanks,

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J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
KANALOG Mounted & Connected
Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters
VFD Wiring to Existing Tree325 Old Controller


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[mmurray70]

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Thanks mmurray70,
Visual aids really help me understand more clearly. I think your suggestion is best for me ... get the basic things work first and then add the Konnect. I do not have the electronic insight as many you who have been answering my posts. It takes me weeks/months to get something done that you man most likely can do in weekend. I just do not have anybody to ask about this retrofit but this forum and I do not want to burn anything before I get it all working.

As far as the cheap solid state goes ... is this what you were referring too that would work for now?

Is it this "Trigger Current of 5mA" that will allow me to use this will Kanalog?

Link

.....
.....

J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
KANALOG Mounted & Connected
Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters


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I was thinking of these, you tend to see alot of people use these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/SSR-25-DA-2...4AAOSwWxNYrWEq

Nearly all the functions of my machine are controlled by this type of SSR and Konnect / Kanalog: https://www.digikey.ca/product-detai...7023-ND/180934

All these solid state relays say AC output, not sure if they work with DC to be honest. The first type are dirt cheap but chinese so may be questionable. They do work, ive used them before and they were fine. But buy spairs if you get them. Also you dont need to wait for them from china, google solid state relay and you will find them in the US. The second type is what came in my Fadal, just showing for an example. These would require some kind of board that they push into. I have no idea where youd find such a board. But if one was available it makes for a great setup.

[TomKerekes]

Hi PeterTheWolf,

I could really use some help on knowing what wires from the VFD I would connect to KFLOP/Kanalog to start with to get the spindle motor working.

I tried to put together the information I know so far in this HTML link for ease of reference for those (Tom) willing to help get me get started on connecting up my spindle correctly to KFLOP/Kanalog.

The wire numbers in these images on this link are the wire numbers that corresponds to the Tree 325 schematic, which I also linked for ease of reference.

I'm a bit confused as the main Schematics Page 8 seem to indicate a Yaskawa Drive for the Spindle. But you list the DuraPulse Drive. I assume the Schematics are wrong any you actually have and are wired for the Durapulse Drive.

It also isn't clear whether the Drive is intended to Drive CW and CCW? It seems like only #242 is going to the Digital Input #2. I'm thinking that is an Enable and there is no way to change the direction.

Analog Input #3 (AI3) relative to the Analog Common (ACM) should be the +/-10V Speed control (Ahh, maybe the + and - voltage is used to determine the direction).

So I would suggest testing how things work just like you did with the X Y Z amps using a 1.5V battery and 1K resistor. Remove any wiring to AI3 and ACM and connect the battery + resistor.

You probably need to connect DI2 to +24V to enable the Drive. You might use a 1K ohm resistor as a test to avoid any damage if we are wrong. The notes say only 7ma are required so a Kanalog Opto Output could be used directly for this. We would need to make sure EStop still disables the Drive somehow.

Once things are understood a Kanalog DAC can be used in place of the battery.

HTH
Regards

[PeterTheWolf]

Hi PeterTheWolf,

I'm a bit confused as the main Schematics Page 8 seem to indicate a Yaskawa Drive for the Spindle. But you list the DuraPulse Drive. I assume the Schematics are wrong any you actually have and are wired for the Durapulse Drive.

Yes... the Yaskawa drive was replaced with the DuraPulse before I purchased the machines. The Tree 325 schematic was for reference of the existing wires that go to the DuraPulse drive ... but you already figured that out.

I will test per your instructions .... thanks!!!

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J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
KANALOG Mounted & Connected
Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters
VFD Wiring to Existing Tree325 Old Controller


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[PeterTheWolf]

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Analog Input #3 (AI3) relative to the Analog Common (ACM) should be the +/-10V Speed control (Ahh, maybe the + and - voltage is used to determine the direction).

So I would suggest testing how things work just like you did with the X Y Z amps using a 1.5V battery and 1K resistor. Remove any wiring to AI3 and ACM and connect the battery + resistor.

You probably need to connect DI2 to +24V to enable the Drive. You might use a 1K ohm resistor as a test to avoid any damage if we are wrong. The notes say only 7ma are required so a Kanalog Opto Output could be used directly for this. We would need to make sure EStop still disables the Drive somehow.

Once things are understood a Kanalog DAC can be used in place of the battery.

I tried connecting 1.5VDC battery with a 1K ohm resistor in series to the VDF terminals AI3 on the positive end and ACM on the negative end with +24VDC & 1K Ohm resister in series to VFD terminal DI2.
My results were unnoticeable... I got zero movement on the spindle motor and just about zero resistance when I tried to turn the spindle motor by hand. I also flipped the leads on the 1.5VDC battery connection; however, the result were the same. No spindle motor movement.

I also tried to connect the +24VDC to terminal +24V on the VFD instead of DI2 ... the results were the same ... no spindle motor movement.

I check all the parameters on the VFD P0.00 thru P10.05 (Chapter 4 of the DuraPluse Manual, first 14 pages are the setting parameters) and the only ones not set to the factory defaults were:

P0.00=200
P0.01=32
P0.02=400HZ
P0.03=1750
P0.04=8000
P0.07=28.0
P1.01=0.1
P1.02=0.1
P2.00=03
P2.01=0.0
P2.02=1
P2.04=200HZ
P2.06=120v
P2.07=5.0v
P2.08=9 (not sure why this would not have been the 1-5hp setting which would be 15)
P3.00=1
P3.11=01
P3.12=02 (DO1 ... At Speed)
P3.13=03 (DO2 ... Zero Speed)
P3.14=02 (DO3 ... At Speed)
P4.00=06 (Frequency determined by -10V to +10V input on AI3 terminal.)
P4.12 thru P4.18 N/A
P6.31 thru P6.36=24 (Momentary Power Loss)
P9.39=1.02 (Firmware Version)
P9.41=03 (GS3)
P942=05 (GS3-2010 -- 230V 3ph 10hp)
P10.00=1024 (Encoder Pulses per Revolution)
P10.01=00 (this is Disable) is that correct?

What I also forgot to document in the this HTML LINK was that wires #241 and #243 are not used in this VDF and are connected to each compared to the original Tree design had this connect in the Yaskawa AC Spindle Drive (which page-8 of the Tree Schematic shows).

What I also found strange was when +24VDC was connect to the VFD terminal DI2 (with 1K ohm resister) I was seeing 47VDC on the +24V terminal on the VFD.
Should I be seeing this? Wire #240 was still connected to the +24V VFD terminal when I was testing.

Oh, once more thing, while I was testing with the +24VDC connected to the VFD terminal DI2 (with 1K ohm resister) I was also seeing +24VDC on VFD terminals R1C (wire #298) and R1 (wire #208).

So needless to say, I am at a lose to know what to do next. Could certainly use some help.


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J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
KANALOG Mounted & Connected
Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters
VFD Wiring to Existing Tree325 Old Controller


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[TomKerekes]

Hi PeterTheWolf,

Hmmm...

I tried connecting 1.5VDC battery with a 1K ohm resistor in series to the VDF terminals AI3 on the positive end and ACM on the negative end with +24VDC & 1K Ohm resister in series to VFD terminal DI2.

It isn't clear to me what +24V you were using here. It should be the +24VDC from the Drive. There is likely no GND connection between your other +24V Supply and the +24V Supply inside the Drive. That is probably why when you connect your +24V to the Input (a signal probably near the Drives 0V) the two supplies add together.

You also aren't being entirely clear when you are measuring a voltage what you are referencing the voltage to (where is the black lead of the meter is).

It seems the DI inputs can work two ways. They either need to be pulled up to 24V or pulled down to 0V. It isn't clear to me how or where that is configured.

So please repeat the following:

#1 measure the voltage of DI2 relative to DCM with nothing connected (I'm expecting 1V or less here)

#2 connect the 1K ohm resistor between the Drives 24V output and DI2

#3 Measure the voltage on DI2 now (relative to DCM)

#4 Apply the 1.5V battery and see if it runs

Regards

[m_c]

As Tom says, the VFD should not need an external 24VDC supply, unless it has the capability to be powered separately like modern servo drives.
However, I'm assuming the VFD powers up with mains voltage applied, in which case no external 24VDC supply is needed.

Looking at the manual, the VFD is set so it needs DI1 connected to DCM for forward, or DI2 to DCM for reverse (page 4-29 shows the input connections).
With the VFD powered up, try connecting DI1 to DCM. VFDs normally have to be powered up and gone through any power up tests before this connection is made, otherwise they won't run. If you did want the VFD to run the motor on power up, then there is usually a setting you have to change.
Usually once the connection is made, the display will change to signify the VFD is now running the motor. Any VFD I've used will display the run frequency at this point, unless the setting has been changed to display something else.

At that point, try connecting the battery/resistor over the analogue input terminals, and the motor should start turning.

[PeterTheWolf]

Hi PeterTheWolf,

Hmmm...

It isn't clear to me what +24V you were using here. It should be the +24VDC from the Drive. There is likely no GND connection between your other +24V Supply and the +24V Supply inside the Drive. That is probably why when you connect your +24V to the Input (a signal probably near the Drives 0V) the two supplies add together.

You also aren't being entirely clear when you are measuring a voltage what you are referencing the voltage to (where is the black lead of the meter is).
Regards

Just for the record ... I connect +24VDC source wire from the old controller (+24VDC source page 9, zone 19D of the Tree Schematic) to Terminal +24V on the VFD and I was checking voltage of relative to the wire #4 (com). I thought I needed to provide the +24VDC to the VFD ... my ignorance.

Hi PeterTheWolf,
It seems the DI inputs can work two ways. They either need to be pulled up to 24V or pulled down to 0V. It isn't clear to me how or where that is configured.

So please repeat the following:

#1 measure the voltage of DI2 relative to DCM with nothing connected (I'm expecting 1V or less here)

#2 connect the 1K ohm resistor between the Drives 24V output and DI2

#3 Measure the voltage on DI2 now (relative to DCM)

#4 Apply the 1.5V battery and see if it runs

Ok ... I followed your steps.

1.) I removed ALL the wire from the VFD terminals.

2.) Then I measured the voltage of DI2 relative to DCM -- Results were +900mvdc dropping to -900mvdc and once it hit -900mvdc then it jump back to +900mvdc and repeat the drop. Under 1 VDC as you expected.

3.) Then I connect the one end of a lead to the +24V terminal on the VFD and the other end to a 1K ohm resister and then the other end of the 1K ohm resister to the the DI2 terminal on the VFD. I used a switch here because the first time I connected the spindle motor actually started turning slow and a bit jerky ..... however, after about 30 seconds I got a frequency overload error on the VFD display and it shut down.

4.) So I reset and then use the switch to turn it on again and check the voltage quickly on DI2 relative to DCM ... my results were about +17.5VDC.

5.) Then I connect the +1.5VDC battery with the 1K ohm resister in series to AI3 and ACM terminals on the VFD.

6.) Results ... as you expected Tom ... the spindle motor turned forward at a Frequency of 46.5 Hz according to the display and when I reversed the leads the spindle motor turned in the reverse direction at about 46.9 Hz Frequency according to the display. The display also reported Forward and Reverse direction accordingly.

7.) COOL!!!!! From what I hear at this slower RPM the spindle bearings sound good.

Thank you for your insight Tom & M_C.

Picture Link


What steps do I take from here to get all the wires connected back up and working with Kanalog / NC Code?

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.....

J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
KANALOG Mounted & Connected
Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters
VFD Wiring to Existing Tree325 Old Controller


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[TomKerekes]

Hi PeterTheWolf,

Congrats!

So now you could connect a Kanalog DAC (and GND) where the battery was and a Kanalog Opto Output where the resistor was (to DI2) and you would have control of the Spindle from KFLOP. However for safety reasons (Safety is entirely your responsibility) you probably want something else in hardware to force the Spindle off. EStop? Limit Switches? Overtemp? You have to decide and list all of your requirements. I forget maybe you already have this via the main contactor killing power? Sometimes just killing power can be bad as the Spindle may coast instead of stop. Others are probably better at suggesting requirements. I haven't gone through the old wiring to see what was done before.

Regards

[mmurray70]

Hi PeterTheWolf,

Congrats!

So now you could connect a Kanalog DAC (and GND) where the battery was and a Kanalog Opto Output where the resistor was (to DI2) and you would have control of the Spindle from KFLOP. However for safety reasons (Safety is entirely your responsibility) you probably want something else in hardware to force the Spindle off. EStop? Limit Switches? Overtemp? You have to decide and list all of your requirements. I forget maybe you already have this via the main contactor killing power? Sometimes just killing power can be bad as the Spindle may coast instead of stop. Others are probably better at suggesting requirements. I haven't gone through the old wiring to see what was done before.

Regards

Some industrial machines will simply coast to a stop in E-stop. People actually test spindle bearings this way, get it up to speed and hit estop and see how loud it is while coasting, works well on direct drive spindles. The Mazak at my last job is like this. My Fadal is like you suggest, hit e-stop and it will stop normally instead of coast. I guess pros and cons of each. The first way will coast which could be dangerous, and the second way E-stop isnt actually cutting power supply to drive.

Glad you got it working peter. I think it was a good idea to remove all the VFD wiring and just use your own at this point. You might be best of taking that approach with the rest of machine (drawbar, etc) if your get stuck with origional wiring.

[PeterTheWolf]

....
So now you could connect a Kanalog DAC (and GND) where the battery was and a Kanalog Opto Output where the resistor was (to DI2) and you would have control of the Spindle from KFLOP. However for safety reasons (Safety is entirely your responsibility) you probably want something else in hardware to force the Spindle off. EStop? Limit Switches? Overtemp? You have to decide and list all of your requirements. I forget maybe you already have this via the main contactor killing power? Sometimes just killing power can be bad as the Spindle may coast instead of stop. Others are probably better at suggesting requirements. I haven't gone through the old wiring to see what was done before.

OK ... this is what I have so far; However, I would like to get some conformation before I put the power to it for testing.

1.) I found the existing two shielded wires that would connect to the AI3 (the positive Red wire) and the ACM (the com wire) on the VFD (in place of where I tested the Spindle motor drive with a 1.5VDC and 1K Ohm resister).

2.) The other end of this shielded Red (AI3) /Black (ACM) wires I connected the Red (AI3) wire to Kanalog DAC Output JP11 (#7 terminal) and the Black (ACM) wire to Kanalog DAC Output JP11 GND terminal and the Shielded ground wire to another Kanalog DAC Output JP11 GND terminal.

3.) This should take care of the DAC ouputs coming from Kanalog/KLFOP.

However, I think the wire I need to connect to the Kanalog Opto Output (which will connect to DI2 on the VFD terminal) its a bit more confusing if I intend on keeping the interlock relays working correctly.

I would really like to get conformation on my thinking on how I think these interlocks work.

The way I understand it should work on terminal DI2 on the VFD terminal is:

The +24VDC terminal on the VFD provides DI2 terminal with +24VDC. At least that is what I tested with along with a 1K ohm resister in series.
The old controller had an output to wire #217, which I am thinking was +24VDC.

LINK

So, I am thinking for the Spindle to run through Kanalog/KFLOP I need wire #217 connected to JP13 Opto Output (I will be use # +7) which will:

1.) Wire #217 must be connected to Kanalog JP13 Opto Output (# +7) so when KFLOP reads a "M03" and "S" NC Code -- this JP13 Opto Output (# +7) would provide +24VDC to wire #217 (which is connected to 13CRE relay).

2.) So when wire #217 on 13CRE relay gets +24VDC then wire #218 on 13CRE relay would have +24VDC -- which in turn would feed wire #218 connected to 12CRE relay which would turn 12CRE relay on.

3.) Once 12CRE relay is on then wire #243 would connect to wire #242 which is also connected to 12CRE relay and the other end of wire #242 is connect to DI2 on the VFD terminal.

4.) And the wire #242 get +24VDC from the VFD +24VDC terminal because ....

5.) Wire #243 and wire #241 are connected together just outside of the VFD (separate from the VFD bus terminal).

6.) However, since 1CR relay is on at this point, wire #240 (which is connected to the VFD +24VDC terminal), now has +24VDC from the VFD +24VDC terminal which in turn feeds wire #241 on 1CR relay (when on) with +24VDC.

7.) So, I am thinking this is how wire #242 on 12CR relay gets the +24VDC from the +24VDC VFD terminal, which is connected to DI2 terminal on the VFD.

This LINK has the 1CR, 2CRE, 12CR, and 13CRE relays wire pin for quick reference (see last 4 images of link).

Am I tracking this wire logic correctly?

Any feedback would be great.

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.....

J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
KANALOG Mounted & Connected
Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters
VFD Wiring to Existing Tree325 Old Controller


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[TomKerekes]

Hi PeterTheWolf,

1.) I found the existing two shielded wires that would connect to the AI3 (the positive Red wire) and the ACM (the com wire) on the VFD (in place of where I tested the Spindle motor drive with a 1.5VDC and 1K Ohm resister).

2.) The other end of this shielded Red (AI3) /Black (ACM) wires I connected the Red (AI3) wire to Kanalog DAC Output JP11 (#7 terminal) and the Black (ACM) wire to Kanalog DAC Output JP11 GND terminal and the Shielded ground wire to another Kanalog DAC Output JP11 GND terminal.

3.) This should take care of the DAC ouputs coming from Kanalog/KLFOP.

That sounds correct

So, I am thinking for the Spindle to run through Kanalog/KFLOP I need wire #217 connected to JP13 Opto Output (I will be use # +7) which will:

1.) Wire #217 must be connected to Kanalog JP13 Opto Output (# +7) so when KFLOP reads a "M03" and "S" NC Code -- this JP13 Opto Output (# +7) would provide +24VDC to wire #217 (which is connected to 13CRE relay).

2.) So when wire #217 on 13CRE relay gets +24VDC then wire #218 on 13CRE relay would have +24VDC -- which in turn would feed wire #218 connected to 12CRE relay which would turn 12CRE relay on.

3.) Once 12CRE relay is on then wire #243 would connect to wire #242 which is also connected to 12CRE relay and the other end of wire #242 is connect to DI2 on the VFD terminal.

4.) And the wire #242 get +24VDC from the VFD +24VDC terminal because ....

5.) Wire #243 and wire #241 are connected together just outside of the VFD (separate from the VFD bus terminal).

6.) However, since 1CR relay is on at this point, wire #240 (which is connected to the VFD +24VDC terminal), now has +24VDC from the VFD +24VDC terminal which in turn feeds wire #241 on 1CR relay (when on) with +24VDC.

7.) So, I am thinking this is how wire #242 on 12CR relay gets the +24VDC from the +24VDC VFD terminal, which is connected to DI2 terminal on the VFD.

This LINK has the 1CR, 2CRE, 12CR, and 13CRE relays wire pin for quick reference (see last 4 images of link).

To be honest I didn't take the time to follow all that. But it doesn't sound correct. A Kanalog output can not be used to control the existing relays because the coils take too much current. And I don't think that is needed in this case.

I think what we are trying to do is simply to have Kanalog be able to turn on the VFD except when the DrawBar is engaged (or disengaged?).

I like to start off simple and go Step-by-step. See the first figure in diagram below. Simply wire the opto as shown. Then Verify KFLOP can turn on and off the Spindle. Of course be careful that it can be turned on regardless of the state of the drawbar. You might also verify you can control speed by writing to the DAC.

Once that all works add the 13CRE relay contact as shown. Now depending on the state of the Drawbar KFLOP should only be able to turn on the VFD when appropriate.

Note all extraneous wiring going to old stuff should be disconnected from that circuit.



HTH
Regards

[PeterTheWolf]

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To be honest I didn't take the time to follow all that. But it doesn't sound correct. A Kanalog output can not be used to control the existing relays because the coils take too much current. And I don't think that is needed in this case.
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Yes, of course, this was addressed earlier in reply #205 of this thread.

I think what we are trying to do is simply to have Kanalog be able to turn on the VFD except when the DrawBar is engaged (or disengaged?).

I like to start off simple and go Step-by-step. See the first figure in diagram below. Simply wire the opto as shown. Then Verify KFLOP can turn on and off the Spindle. Of course be careful that it can be turned on regardless of the state of the drawbar. You might also verify you can control speed by writing to the DAC.

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Tom,

I tried the simply test first. I connected Kanalog Opto #7 + to VFD +24VDC and Opto #7 - to VFD DI2 per your sketch. All other wires were disconnected from the VFD expect the DAC output JP11 +7 (Red) wire to (AI3 on VFD) & -7 (Black) wire to (ACM on VFD).

However, I am not sure what to do with Kanalog parameters to get the spindle motor turning.

Here is a 33mb zipped video file of what I tried in KMotion/Kanalog to get this simply test to work turning the spindle motor via VFD.

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J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
KANALOG Mounted & Connected
Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters
VFD Wiring to Existing Tree325 Old Controller


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[TomKerekes]

Hi PeterTheWolf,

You need to click the Kanalog Opto Output #7 State On (not the Opto Inputs).



Regards

[PeterTheWolf]

You need to click the Kanalog Opto Output #7 State On (not the Opto Inputs).

Tom ... Thanks ... that test works!!!!

However, what I am seeing is if I set the DAC7 = 50 in Kmotion .... I get a ... kinda grinding sound in the spindle as it tries to rotate slow as well as kinda jecky.
If I make DAC7 = 100 it runs great.

On another note: How do I get the spindle to turn on via NC code from KmotionCNC?

As it is now ... I tried a M03S1000 from KmotionCNC and did not get the spindle to turn.

[TomKerekes]

Hi PeterTheWolf,

Great! I suspect your Spindle Drive just wont work well at such a low speed and you will need to avoid low speeds. What is the lowest speed that it runs well at? What is the lowest speed you require?

Can the DAC drive the spindle both directions?

I forget do you have an encoder on the Spindle? One would be required to do rigid tapping.

If so after it is connected up and working the next step would be to configure an axis just like your XYZ and tune it in a similar way using the Step Response Screen. Performance will be very poor with lower gains poor accuracy but it should move and function. At that point you should be able to Jog the spindle at any speed. We can then configure KMotionCNC to use the Example Programs that control any spindle via Jog commands.

Regards

[mmurray70]

Tom ... Thanks ... that test works!!!!

However, what I am seeing is if I set the DAC7 = 50 in Kmotion .... I get a ... kinda grinding sound in the spindle as it tries to rotate slow as well as kinda jecky.
If I make DAC7 = 100 it runs great.

On another note: How do I get the spindle to turn on via NC code from KmotionCNC?

As it is now ... I tried a M03S1000 from KmotionCNC and did not get the spindle to turn.

You need to do a few very simple C programs before g code commands will work. You need one configured for the M3 command which basically just turns that opto output on, you need another for M5 to turn it off, and another one is used to set the DAC value to get the right speed based on the "S" value.

There are two ways of setting up the spindle. You can do it open loop which is basically like I described above. Or you can configure it like an axis like Tom suggested. Id reccomend you go that route since Tom suggested it. But if you run into much trouble tuning spindle, or you dont have a spindle encoder at all, dont worry about it too much. It will probably run just fine without being configured as an axis. Mine is just open loop and it works great. And it will still do rigid tapping (assuming you have an encoder) without being configured as an axis.