Build Thread Tree325 Retrofit Started - Page 3


Page 3 of 17 FirstFirst 12345613 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 336

Thread: Tree325 Retrofit Started

  1. #41
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    505
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    You should try your test again with a jumper from 200 to 206 instead of from 200 all the way to 209. This should do the same thing, but use the safety of estop, travel limits and overloads cutting power if something goes wrong.

    It would be best to control the relay with Kanalog but maybe a mechanical switch as Tom mentioned would be best for now until you get everything up and running. You could come back to this later when you have more understanding on how to control outputs with Kanalog.

    After your finished with the relay thing, the next step will be to supply power to the encoders (usually 5v). Then connect the encoder signal wires to Kanalog, be sure to use shielded cables. And finally Kanalog DAC outputs connect to where your applying the test voltage. And then your ready to roll i think, or at least ready to start tuning.



  2. #42
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    209
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    ....
    .....

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    .... Please take some close up pictures of the Amp boards and connectors. Maybe the drives don't match the drawing? But on the other hand the old controller seemed to be using those pins so I would expect it to work.
    Below is your Amp Drawing and the supposed connections to the Amp. The drawing shows connected to J2. But the photo looks more like J1. Can you identify where J2 is?
    Tom, I finally got some pictures of one of the drive boards (SD1525-10) for clarity.... you can view them Here at this Link.

    If I use D=R*T to calculate, what I think the feed-rate was on my last 1.5V battery in series with a 1K Ohm resistor across the “Velocity Command” lines, I get about 6 IPM.
    If the max feed rate of the J325 is 200 IPM at max. voltage, I should see 30 IPM based on 15% of 200 IPM on the X-axis move which would be about 1" in two seconds. Am I calculating this correctly?

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used

    .....
    .....



  3. #43
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    209
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    .....
    .....

    Quote Originally Posted by mmurray70 View Post
    You should try your test again with a jumper from 200 to 206 instead of from 200 all the way to 209. This should do the same thing, but use the safety of estop, travel limits and overloads cutting power if something goes wrong.
    OK ...
    1.) I tested once more the 1.5V battery in series with a 1K Ohm resistor across the “Velocity Command” lines of each X-axis while using the jumper from #200 to #206 on the 1CRE relay.
    2.) It responded as you expected mmurray70 and indeed pulled in the 1CON relay as designed.
    3.) I also tried the Estop and limit switch while the X-axis was in motion and the both safety features dropped out the 1CON relay as long as the switches were closed (on) .... Cool.
    4.) I also measured the X-axis movement over a 10 second time frame with this test. The X-axis moved off the arrow reference mark about .685" in 10 seconds.
    5.) So, wouldn't that put the feed-rate at 4.11 IPM using the 1.5V battery in series with a 1K Ohm resistor across the “Velocity Command” lines, which should give 15% of the max. feed rate ... but is not?
    6.) d=r*t --> r=.685" / .1666 mins. r=4.11 IPM

    .....
    ......

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used

    .....
    .....



  4. #44
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3502
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Good news on the EStop etc... Great amplifier photos. It seems the input voltage is to J2 in agreement with the schematic. I agree with your calculations. It seems we are ~7X too slow for some reason.

    Are you disconnecting the old connections to J2? I had asked you to try to pop those pins out of the connector or cut them. If those are still connected then the old controller circuit might fight with the battery+1Kohm and likely mostly win the battle.

    You might also check the voltage into J2 at the J2 pins. It should be nearly 1.5V if nothing else is driving those pins.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  5. #45
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    209
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    .....
    .....

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Good news on the EStop etc... Great amplifier photos. It seems the input voltage is to J2 in agreement with the schematic. I agree with your calculations. It seems we are ~7X too slow for some reason.

    Are you disconnecting the old connections to J2? I had asked you to try to pop those pins out of the connector or cut them. If those are still connected then the old controller circuit might fight with the battery+1Kohm and likely mostly win the battle.

    You might also check the voltage into J2 at the J2 pins. It should be nearly 1.5V if nothing else is driving those pins.

    Regards
    Yes Tom, You did advise me to disconnect J2 (pins 1 & 2) from the controller cable and I did not. I just tested the X-axis one more time with the 1K Ohm resistor across the “Velocity Command” J2 (pin 1 & 2) lines of the X-axis from the back side of the driver board after I cut these wires from the controller cable.
    And yes, now I am getting 30-24 IPM based on the 8-10 seconds I counted for a 4.0" motion on the X-axis. Cool ... it is now tested as OK.

    I also checked the voltage on the J2 (across pins 1 & 2) while running and I was getting 1.59 VDC as compared the 1.6 VDC on the battery unloaded.

    I am getting a "singing" noise from the drive when 1CON relay is engaged and there is power to the drive.
    ....
    .....

    Here is a video where you can hear it:

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used

    .....
    .....

    Last edited by PeterTheWolf; 10-15-2017 at 07:59 PM.


  6. #46
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    505
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Good to hear that you got it figured out. Thats some great troubleshooting Tom, i wouldnt have thought of that.

    The singing is the PWM from the servo drives. Servo drives tend to make a high frequency sound, but most drives are switching at a frequency above our hearing range so you dont notice much if anything depending on the drive and your hearing. Older drives switched at a lower frequency that is well within our hearing range and thats the annoying sound your hearing. Might have to learn to live with it. Should be a little better with the cabinet closed, but it will still be noticable. You can hear the same thing in this youtube video:




    Also, thanks for posting those links in every post, great idea.



  7. #47
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3502
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Congrats!! That's a major milestone.

    Like mmurray70 says you may need to live with that singing if that is the switching frequency of the drives. Or switch to a SnapAmp that switches at 32KHz

    Is the singing sound as bad when you disconnect all your test leads? Those long unshielded leads might be picking up switching noise and feeding it back in.

    The next steps would be to mount KFLOP+Kanalog, connect the Kanalog DAC outputs 0, 1, 2 (and GNDs) to where the battery was connected. Use shielded cable if possible and connect the shield to GND at the Amplifier the same pin as the tachometer shield is connected.

    Also connect the encoder signals A+ A- B+ B- and GND to Kanalog Differential inputs (and Kanalog GND). The "Marker" signal is a once per rev encoder pulse and is optional. If interfaced it can make homing more accurate.

    Our wiki might help with these steps.



    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  8. #48
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    209
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    .....
    .....

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    ...
    Is the singing sound as bad when you disconnect all your test leads? Those long unshielded leads might be picking up switching noise and feeding it back in.
    Tom, I am pretty sure this singing was there before I connected the leads; however, I will observe on my next power up.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    ...

    The next steps would be to mount KFLOP+Kanalog, connect the Kanalog DAC outputs 0, 1, 2 (and GNDs) to where the battery was connected. Use shielded cable if possible and connect the shield to GND at the Amplifier the same pin as the tachometer shield is connected.

    Also connect the encoder signals A+ A- B+ B- and GND to Kanalog Differential inputs (and Kanalog GND). The "Marker" signal is a once per rev encoder pulse and is optional. If interfaced it can make homing more accurate.
    I know this is elementary for you, however, let’s take a few small elementary steps.

    1.) Just to confirm. I see the Kanalog DAC outputs on the board at JP11, So I would be connecting X,Y,& Z axis drive Pins (Red, pos. Leads on the old controller connector) to the JP11 pins 0,1,2 respectively and the Neg. Pin (black lead old controller connector) to JP11 GNDs.
    2.) The old controller connector will no longer be connected at all or I only cut the first two wires on all three axis connectors and still keep the connectors connected? I am assuming this connect will no longer be connect on the drives.
    3.) I do not know what pins are the Encoder Signal Pins on the drive board. I cannot discern the drive schematic at this point. Can you please advise?
    4.) I did notice on RickB's J325 retrofit drawing schematic (page 2), he had used a custom board. Will this be needed?
    5.) When using shielded wire ... is only one end grounded to the GND on the Kanalog board?

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-dac_pins-jpg

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-encoderpins-jpg Tree325 Retrofit Started-rickb_enc_leads-jpg

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring


    .....
    .....

    Last edited by PeterTheWolf; 10-16-2017 at 09:22 PM.


  9. #49
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3502
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    I know this is elementary for you, however, let’s take a few small elementary steps.
    I like that approach

    1.) Just to confirm. I see the Kanalog DAC outputs on the board at JP11, So I would be connecting X,Y,& Z axis drive Pins (Red, pos. Leads on the old controller connector) to the JP11 pins 0,1,2 respectively and the Neg. Pin (black lead old controller connector) to JP11 GNDs.
    Correct

    2.) The old controller connector will no longer be connected at all or I only cut the first two wires on all three axis connectors and still keep the connectors connected? I am assuming this connect will no longer be connect on the drives.
    Only change the first 2 wires. I don't believe the other wires go to the old controller. The tachometer wires come from the tachometer on the motor. The drive needs that to know the motor speed so it can control the speed of the motor to what is requested by Kanalog. I think the other wires have to do with enabling the drive. You will probably want to keep those as well.

    3.) I do not know what pins are the Encoder Signal Pins on the drive board. I cannot discern the drive schematic at this point. Can you please advise?
    The Encoders are shown on page 3 of the schematic and shows how they were connected to the old controller. There should be shielded cables coming from the encoders which are mounted on the Drive motors or on the lead screws of the machine. You will want to disconnect them from the old controller and connect them to Kanalog instead. The +5V that power the encoders is probably best to now be driven by Kanalog rather than using the old controller's +5V mainly because it will make cabling easier.

    4.) I did notice on RickB's J325 retrofit drawing schematic (page 2), he had used a custom board. Will this be needed?
    RickB's encoders had single ended outputs rather than differential outputs required by Kanalog's differential encoder inputs. So he needed a converter. Yours seem to be differential (they have both the + and - signals). So yours should connect directly. You might read this:
    Dynomotion Motion Control Boards for CNC Manufacturing and Robotics Applications

    5.) When using shielded wire ... is on one end grounded to the GND on the Kanalog board?
    The general rule is with cables that carry signals (not power) the shield should be connected to the DC GND of the listener (receiver/input). So with the analog signals coming from Kanalog (or the Tachometer signals coming from the motor) the shield should be connected to the amplifier DC GND. The Tachometer already does this. For Encoder signals going to Kanalog, the shield should be connected to Kanalog DC GND

    HTH
    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  10. #50
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    209
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    ....
    ....

    I was able to find the Servo Drive Manual -- SD1525 ... which is a 37 page, 15mb PDF file.

    I have added to the the J325 Quick List of links below (J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual) :

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring



    .....
    .....



  11. #51
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    209
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    ....
    ....

    Ok ... I got all the servo Encoder signal wires identified and labeled for connecting to the Kflop/Kanalog broad.

    I also got my ATX power Supply connected with a 10 Ohm/ 10 Watt Resistor across the +5VDC and COM.

    I figured the simplest part of this retrofit would be installing the USB drivers and Kmotion.

    However, when trying to run the "Version" test at the Console window, after the install .... I get an error.... "Can't Connect to KMotion Board #0".

    I have two green lights on the Kflop. What should I be looking at to correct this?

    Here are a few images of what I have.

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-kflop_kanalog_board-jpg

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotion_1-jpg Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotion_2-png Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotion_3-png Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotion_4-png

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotion_5-png Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotion_6-jpg

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-atx_powersupply-jpg



  12. #52
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3502
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    The USB Drivers need to be loaded correctly without any errors or warnings in order for KMotion.exe to be able to connect.

    For Windows 7 please use the signed drivers from our latest Test Version V4.34j and see notes here:
    Dynomotion

    btw an ATX Power Supply is not usually the best choice because they usually have an undesirable internal connection between DC GND and Earth GND. Also they are designed for much higher power than the few watts KFLOP and Kanalog require (~10 Watts). A small regulated isolated 10 Watt 5V supply might be better and can be obtained for $15 or less.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  13. #53
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    209
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    .....
    ......

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post

    For Windows 7 please use the signed drivers from our latest Test Version V4.34j and see notes here:
    Dynomotion

    Regards
    Hello Tom,

    I did run the Kmotion V4.34J install ... in fact I tried it on two laptops running windows 7 SP1; however, both have failed to connect to the Kflop board and version test failed.

    I am guessing I am missing a windows 7 update of some kind. Can you please advise as to the necessary windows 7 updates that must be installed for Kmotion/USB driver to work?
    I typically do not let windows run every update that comes out on my laptops.

    Thanks,

    PeteW.
    ....
    ....

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring



    .....
    .....



  14. #54
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    209
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    ....
    .....

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    ....

    A small regulated isolated 10 Watt 5V supply might be better and can be obtained for $15 or less.

    Regards
    Tom, Do you see any issues with using a Power Supply like --- THIS --- for powering the Kflop board?

    Thanks,

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply

    .....
    .....



  15. #55
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    505
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterTheWolf View Post
    .....
    ......



    Hello Tom,

    I did run the Kmotion V4.34J install ... in fact I tried it on two laptops running windows 7 SP1; however, both have failed to connect to the Kflop board and version test failed.

    I am guessing I am missing a windows 7 update of some kind. Can you please advise as to the necessary windows 7 updates that must be installed for Kmotion/USB driver to work?
    I typically do not let windows run every update that comes out on my laptops.

    Thanks,

    PeteW.
    ....
    ....

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring



    .....
    .....
    I also had a hard time getting it to work on Windows 7. Some combination of updates or service packs eventually did get it to work. I never did get rid of the error about driver signature, but it does connect and work fine. Too bad they keep changing windows so much.



  16. #56
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3502
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    I am guessing I am missing a windows 7 update of some kind. Can you please advise as to the necessary windows 7 updates that must be installed for Kmotion/USB driver to work?
    I'm afraid you would need to ask Microsoft which Updates are required for their Cryptography chain of Digital Certificates to work correctly if they even release that information. You might let us know which ones does the trick.

    That 15W 5V Meanwell power supply should work well.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  17. #57
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    209
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    .....
    ......

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    I'm afraid you would need to ask Microsoft which Updates are required for their Cryptography chain of Digital Certificates to work correctly if they even release that information. You might let us know which ones does the trick.

    Regards
    Tom, Windows updates is not the issue I found. It would seem Microsoft wants to hold developers ransom for $$$ until they get their developed device driver files certified for $$$.

    So, there are a few ways to get around this. I chose to use a programs that basically puts the PC/laptop in development (Test) mode via F8 on boot-up and selecting “Disable Driver Signature Enforcement” from the advance screen in you CMOS. However, this action would be required on each boot-up.
    I chose to used a free program that will enable a Driver Signature Enforcement Overrider.

    The name of this program is "dseo13b.exe" and can be downloaded from this ..... WEB SITE .....
    It pretty much does what F8 does without going into the CMOS on boot-up each time.

    Or if you choose not to use this small executable you can try the following from this .... WEB SITE..... (the last posted solution), which basically is a bait & switch on the files at the OS level.
    Actually, this was going to be my first attempt before I ran across this web site; however, you would first need a working computer with the signed files.

    In any case ... I now have my Kflop/Kanalog boards talking to my laptop I plan on using for this retrofit.

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-kflop_talking-png

    ......
    ......

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply



    .....
    .....

    Last edited by PeterTheWolf; 10-25-2017 at 10:12 PM.


  18. #58
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    350
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    The KFlop drivers are MS certified, however certain versions of windows they don't get accepted.

    I had the problem on two different computers (a Win 7 Pro, and a Win 8.1), and on both, ensuring all the latest windows updates were installed cured the problem. Although the drivers are certified, that certification must also need to be known to windows via some update before everything works how it should.



  19. #59
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3502
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    Sorry to hear you are having all this trouble. You shouldn't need to do all that. Certain W7 systems seem to have the most problems. I think that was when Microsoft just started to require digital signatures. I'm not aware of anyone who couldn't eventually get them to load. We go through much trouble and expense to have the drivers digitally signed and cross signed by Microsoft.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  20. #60
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    209
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    ....
    .....

    Tom,
    I am now connecting the Encoder wires to the “Encoder Inputs” on Kanalog “JP1 / JP2”.
    Do I connect the “Marker +/-“ on these terminals as well?
    So I would be connecting the X-axis like this:

    A+ to JP1 (A0+)
    A- to JP1 (A0-)
    B+ to JP1 (B0+)
    B- to JP1 (B0-)
    MARKER+ to JP1 (A1+)
    MARKER- to JP1 (A1-)


    Tree325 Retrofit Started-encoder_connection_1-jpg

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply

    .....
    .....



Page 3 of 17 FirstFirst 12345613 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

Tree325 Retrofit Started

Tree325 Retrofit Started

Tree325 Retrofit Started