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Thread: Tree325 Retrofit Started

  1. #265
    Registered PeterTheWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg9504 View Post
    OK DC bus voltage is sqrt 2 * supply voltage. In this case ~240v * sqrt 2 = 340 v
    So you are seeing a little over this on deceleration.
    When the motor decelerates that energy needs to go somewhere. Basically the VFD turns the motor into a generator and has to dump the excess energy. If the inertia load on the motor is large enough then the VFD can't dissipate the energy fast enough without some external means of absorbing the energy (a braking resistor). Is the spindle motor connected to any type of tool or tool holder attached to it? If so try the tests again without the tool/holder attached.

    What are P2.10, and P6.17 set to?

    Can you post a picture of the spindle motor nameplate? I too am wondering why P0.02 is set to 400Hz.

    As to why this was 'working' before, I'm not sure. Maybe the previous owner machining needs were simple and never needed to vary the spindle speed. Or maybe this is one of the reasons they sold it. Have you called them and asked? It does seem that you need a braking resistor. You could try to disable P6.05 but as I said before this may damage the drive. I would ask Automation Direct technical support what can happen if P6.05 is disabled without fitting a braking resistor.
    Greg9504,

    Currently:

    P2.10 = 00 (Control Mode, V/Hz without encoder feedback)

    P6.17 = 390.0 (Over-Voltage Stall Prevention Level, 230V series - 330.0V to 450.0V)

    I have tried to get a picture and/or reading the spindle motor nameplate via mirror on an extendable shaft. Both methods proved worthless. It looks like nameplate is made of aluminum and values are stamped into the aluminum which makes it very hard to read 10" down in the machine frame.
    For me to get the readings correctly I would need to the remove the pulleys belts and then hoist the motor fame up out of the machine frame. I have read this is no easy task without an overhead crane as it is very heavy.
    The machine at this point is still on a wood pallet and I do not think I have enough ceiling height in the garage lift it up enough. I had to lower the spindle quill down just to clear the 7" garage door opening with a pallet jack.
    I think I will need to find a Borescope to borrow or find one inexpensive enough to purchase for this one time use.
    I will see what I can do. I will also check into the what Automation Direct support has to say.

    Thanks,

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
    KANALOG Mounted & Connected
    Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
    Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
    Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
    Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
    Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
    Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters
    VFD Wiring to Existing Tree325 Old Controller
    DAC Values to RPM / Voltage Checks

    .....
    .....



  2. #266
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    If you can slide a camera down beside the nameplate you may be able to photograph it. A mirror might also work.

    Ben

    Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk



  3. #267
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterTheWolf View Post
    I have tried to get a picture and/or reading the spindle motor nameplate via mirror on an extendable shaft. Both methods proved worthless. It looks like nameplate is made of aluminum and values are stamped into the aluminum which makes it very hard to read 10" down in the machine frame.
    For me to get the readings correctly I would need to the remove the pulleys belts and then hoist the motor fame up out of the machine frame. I have read this is no easy task without an overhead crane as it is very heavy.
    The machine at this point is still on a wood pallet and I do not think I have enough ceiling height in the garage lift it up enough. I had to lower the spindle quill down just to clear the 7" garage door opening with a pallet jack.
    I think I will need to find a Borescope to borrow or find one inexpensive enough to purchase for this one time use.
    I will see what I can do. I will also check into the what Automation Direct support has to say.

    Thanks,

    .
    Those dirt cheap USB ones on ebay for like $10 or something work ok for the price. Just plug them into your phone and download a camera app.

    I dont think id bother to take anything apart if you cant find it. Its obviously a 4 pole motor (1750 rpm) based on your measured speeds. And its almost certainly 60hz unless the machine was made in the UK sometimes you see 50hz. Definitely wouldnt be 400 for a typical induction motor like this machine would have. Even if you did mistake the 50/60 cycle thing it would just mean your V/hz would be off slightly and you could possibly be loosing a little power or running slightly hot, probably not even noticeable. And current is somewhat constant for a given HP 240v motor, you could estimate this fairly close too



  4. #268
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Sorry I missed that you already tried that.

    Ben

    Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk



  5. #269
    Gold Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    BTW regarding Braking Resistor: I see Digikey has a 300W continuous 20ohm resistor for $18. If it were me I'd risk trying it. The data sheet says it can withstand 3KW for 5 seconds. I don't know the energy of your rotating mass but I doubt that it is so much to be a problem. Unless you repeatedly do back-to-back start stops. You could experiment to see how warm/hot it gets after one stop, then two stops, etc...

    Part Number FVE030020E20R0KE
    https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...0-20-ND/269994

    Please be safe. 350VDC is absolutely lethal.

    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


  6. #270
    Registered PeterTheWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    .....
    .....

    OK ... I found this on ebay .... I am thinking it would work for a breaking resistor. It is a 2000 watts / 26 ohms ... almost looks like a heating element.
    I am thinking it would work; however, I did want to get some advice from those on this forum to make sure that if I get it and try it ... I will not damage my VFD. It is not worth trying it if it will damage my VFD as I have read that they usually cannot fix them. And at a plus $600 replacement cost ... I would rather not try it.

    Here is a picture of it ........... LINK.
    ....
    ....

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-2000watta_26ohms_low-jpg


    On another note:

    I final was able to make some test moves in the X-axis and the Y-axis of this retrofit for accuracy over a 12" move. I adjusted my STEPs to get within .0004".
    However, it looks like I am getting about .0015" backlash in the Y-axis.

    Tom, I have a question about the KMotionKFLOP/KMotionCNC ..... it there a parameter that I can set/change to compensate for this .0015" backlash?

    I have read on other threads that it may be worn ball-bearings in the ballscrew. Which can be replaced. I was also told this it may be the ballscrew end bearing.

    ....
    ....

    On yet another note:

    Tom,
    Would you know, by looking at this list of Machines/Controllers ( PDF FILES) , which Post would be the closes/best one to start with for KMotionCNC?

    Thanks,

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
    KANALOG Mounted & Connected
    Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
    Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
    Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
    Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
    Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
    Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters
    VFD Wiring to Existing Tree325 Old Controller
    DAC Values to RPM / Voltage Checks

    .....
    .....

    Last edited by PeterTheWolf; 06-30-2018 at 08:29 PM.


  7. #271
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    I would say no just because you should really put it in some kind of enclosure. Please see Tom's comments about output bus DC voltage (it's dangerous). Here is one on ebay 20 ohm, 2kw, enclosed.

    https://www.ebay.ca/itm/IPC-DYNAMIC-...AAAOSwiHZbEFub

    There is a wiki on backlash compensation:
    https://dynomotion.com/wiki/index.ph...h_Compensation


    Greg



  8. #272
    Gold Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    Regarding Post Processor: You might try the "Fanuc 3 Axis mill in".

    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


  9. #273
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Id probably try it. I dont think you would damage anything. Resistors are resistors, doesn't really matter if they are originally designed for stopping machinery or cooking dinner, they should all work the same way if they are the right resistance and power handling. You could make a little enclosure for it im sure.



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  11. #275
    Gold Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    I see some problems. Mainly the Selector switches are simply switches, not 5V TTL signals like I believe that translator board expects. When a switch opens it breaks the connection and has no output to drive either high or low. It can basically just "float" at any random voltage. A 5V TTL (input expects to be driven either high - above 2.4V, or low below 0.4V). This can usually be solved by adding pull up or down resistors so that when the switch opens the pin is reliably either pulled up or down. Rick may have included that in his translator board.

    A better and simpler solution I think is to just forget about the translator board. The selector switches in the MPG have a common that you are free to connect to 3.3V. In this way when the switches close the output will be forced to 3.3V which is fine for connecting directly to KFLOP JP4 or JP6 Inputs. Also the first 8 Inputs on KFLOP JP4 and JP6 have internal 150 ohm pull down resistors. So when the switches open the inputs will be well held low. You might read this related post:

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...s/messages/331

    However connecting the actual 5v differential encoder signals to Kanalog as you have shown would be the preferred approach.

    Also in your diagram it isn't clear what +5V supply you are referring to and how it is Grounded. You should be able to just use the supplies used with KFLOP/Kanalog. +5V for the MPG's Encoder and 3.3V for the switches.

    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


  12. #276
    Registered PeterTheWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post

    However connecting the actual 5v differential encoder signals to Kanalog as you have shown would be the preferred approach.

    Also in your diagram it isn't clear what +5V supply you are referring to and how it is Grounded. You should be able to just use the supplies used with KFLOP/Kanalog. +5V for the MPG's Encoder and 3.3V for the switches.
    Regards
    .....

    Tom,

    Is this wiring diagram correct?

    Will these connections to the JP6 work with the one of the default MPG C-Programs? Like: "MPGSmooth.c"

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-j325-retrofit-wiring3_dwg-jpg PDF file for zooming in on the details.

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
    KANALOG Mounted & Connected
    Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
    Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
    Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
    Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
    Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
    Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters
    VFD Wiring to Existing Tree325 Old Controller
    DAC Values to RPM / Voltage Checks

    .....
    .....



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Tree325 Retrofit Started

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