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Thread: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    Well, after hours of updates, I have let my system update win 10 to current. Build 1703 I think.

    It is stable when I am on laptop battery power only, or when I am plugged into 120vAC power away from the machines tap. When I plug back into the same feed that is running to the machine, as with my initial setup, the error pops and the PC crashes and reboots.

    It will be a real pain to run a separate AC line to my PC, before that, it seems I need to figure out what the assumed spike is, and smooth it as much as possible. I will install a quench arc on the contactor without, get my hands on a USB isolator for good measure, and look into a scope to further diagnose where the spike is originating.

    Please advise if my initialization is out of order or problematic if possible.

    Regarding the USB isolator. any suggestions on a solid brand, specs, or model? Does it affect the length of cable between kflop and pc (I am at 2M)?

    Thanks to all.



  2. #22
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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    Tom,

    The machine sat for a few days and now it is having the issue all of the time.

    I will be trying another PC running XP to see if it makes a difference.

    I have also looked over my grounds without any findings of a problem. The only task I have left to try on that end is watching a scope while it is all running. However, the error is much delayed now, as much as a minute after powering servos and moving around a bit. It has definitely changed for the severe.

    Please test this on your end with the snapamp. It needs to start to working better, because it is too light to work well as an anchor.



  3. #23
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    Hi MadTooler,

    It is stable when I am on laptop battery power only, or when I am plugged into 120vAC power away from the machines tap. When I plug back into the same feed that is running to the machine, as with my initial setup, the error pops and the PC crashes and reboots.
    That would seem a pretty clear indication you have a noise or grounding problem.


    Regarding the USB isolator. any suggestions on a solid brand, specs, or model? Does it affect the length of cable between kflop and pc (I am at 2M)?
    See:
    Noise - Typical Problems and Resolutions - Dynomotion

    I'm not sure what you mean by affecting the cable length. I'd suggest inserting it near the PC to block noise picked up in the cable from entering the PC and keeping both cables as short as possible.

    Please advise if my initialization is out of order or problematic if possible.
    It looks like you activate your contactor and then immediately enable the servos with:

    // turn on servo power contactor
    SetBit(80); // set a bit high (bit must be defined as an output, see SetBitDirection, then use ClearBit to turn off)

    // axis setup for kmotioncnc
    // Axis enabling
    EnableAxis(0); // enable the Axis at the current encoder position
    EnableAxis(1);
    EnableAxis(2);

    You might insert a delay in order for the contactor to activate and power to be stable before Enabling the Axis to have them attempt to move the motors.

    Please test this on your end with the snapamp. It needs to start to working better, because it is too light to work well as an anchor.
    I think it is unlikely I would be able to reproduce the problem without your supplies, contactors, wiring, grounding, laptop, etc... If you could demonstrate some minimal configuration without those that shows a problem I would be willing to try it.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    Tom,

    While it WAS seemingly not acting up under laptop battery power, or other AC outlet, it now acts up 100% with any power source. Additionally, it does not happen immediately upon powering the servos. It may be a minute or so later. With no change in the system wiring or updates, why would it now be a delayed response if it was merely noise only at servo enabling?

    I actually had already added a small delay between contactor and and axis enable with an updated program that also checks that my manual switch for servo power is also on before enabling. Currently at 0.25 seconds. Should I make it more?

    I had to abandon the win 10 laptop. I ran it from a desktop running XP pro 32 bit. No problems. It is also running from the AC outlets I was originally using, again without issue.

    Since I had already done such extensive noise reduction efforts and the XP machine seems not to care (at least not yet), unless I later am able to find any noise when I finally get my hands on a scope, I am still more convinced this is a laptop usb port, usb driver, and win 10 conflict driven issue more than a case of noise. I will continue to monitor and update with any new findings.

    Even without my possible hardware issue, I stand by my belief that win 10 is unsuitable for CNC control due to the current MS model of perpetual forced updates (even with an offline system it is rough as with current issues such as networking due to known bugs which means it will continue to be a maintenance headache as well). Regardless of how great of a product the Dynomotion components may be, a constantly changing system controller, due to OS or other, could very realistically end in significant property and personal loss.

    Is there any plan to make the full Kmotion/CNC interface run on linux?



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    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    Hi MadTooler,
    While it WAS seemingly not acting up under laptop battery power, or other AC outlet, it now acts up 100% with any power source. Additionally, it does not happen immediately upon powering the servos. It may be a minute or so later. With no change in the system wiring or updates, why would it now be a delayed response if it was merely noise only at servo enabling?
    Strange. But random, delayed problems could still be attributed to noise.
    I actually had already added a small delay between contactor and and axis enable with an updated program that also checks that my manual switch for servo power is also on before enabling. Currently at 0.25 seconds. Should I make it more?
    I think that should be plenty of time for power to stabilize.
    Even without my possible hardware issue, I stand by my belief that win 10 is unsuitable for CNC control due to the current MS model of perpetual forced updates (even with an offline system it is rough as with current issues such as networking due to known bugs which means it will continue to be a maintenance headache as well). Regardless of how great of a product the Dynomotion components may be, a constantly changing system controller, due to OS or other, could very realistically end in significant property and personal loss.
    Point well noted. But I think there are advantages to MS's approach of keeping your system updated. I realize you got burned pretty badly. But it isn't entirely clear to me the Updates were the real issue. You might have had some issue with the Laptop that would have crept up eventually regardless.
    Is there any plan to make the full Kmotion/CNC interface run on linux?
    Good question. The missing piece is the GUI. Which is probably the most difficult and expensive. I'm thinking most Users would still prefer Windows over Linux. How much would you be willing to pay for a Linux Version?

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    Good question. The missing piece is the GUI. Which is probably the most difficult and expensive. I'm thinking most Users would still prefer Windows over Linux. How much would you be willing to pay for a Linux Version?
    Not that I would really know better, but I am surprised the GUI is the toughest. What about a browser friendly version? I see a lot of developers go that way to be OS independent.

    I too prefer using windows over linux, but that is primarily driven by the engineering software I use not giving me a choice, leaving me more comfortable with the environment I am forced into instead of choosing. While linux is definitely a bit more cumbersome, especially for those not command line inclined, it has a lot of huge benefits. As with some of the robotics systems I am involved with developing, you could offer a custom build of the entire OS pre-configured and ready for a clean install for dedicated or dual boot, where that will never be a real possibility under the MS thumb. The cost of the OS would also be very appealing for those that I have noticed are typically considering your product.

    As for cost, your current business model seems to consider the software development as a component of the hardware cost. That was a significant factor for me in choosing your hardware. While I could see and appreciate an increase in future hardware cost to cover the additional OS's supported, it is hard for me to come up with a standalone cost that I would consider paying. I'm probably not the right consumer to base that number on anyway.

    Thanks again for all your attention and responses to my issue.



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KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?