Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit - Page 5


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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by Need TECH Help! View Post
    Tom,
    Where should the A and B channels of a MPG be wired to when using KFLOP/Kanalog/Konnect? I have found examples of wiring them to KFLOP single ended inputs but not to Kanalog.
    Any encoder input. If single ended, they're better being connected to an encoder input on the KFlop, and if differential better on a Kanalog encoder input.

    Example wise, the KFlop and Kanalog inputs are identical, it's just with a Kanalog attached, the encoder inputs are coming via differential receiver chips, and are converted to single ended before connecting to the KFlop encoder inputs. So it's just a case of making sure you select the correct encoder channel, and any example file should work.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Hi Troy,

    Its going to be difficult if you don't have specifications on what you have and how it is supposed to work. But yes you should test it before connecting it to anything. Apply 24V or whatever you think it should have then check the outputs with a voltmeter or scope to see what they do. For example do they toggle between about 24V and 0V?

    Regards
    Ok. Finally getting around to checking outputs of handwheel encoder. I slowly applied voltage to 3.5Volts and scope would show both channels reading 3.5Volts. When i raised voltage to 3.7V both channels would go to 0Volts but nothing happened when rotating encoder until i got to around 4.2Volts. So i applied 5V and slowly rotated handwheel. Both channels would start at 0 then read 5V then back to 0V.When i rotate CW channel A would show 5V first than B. If i rotated CCW, then B would show 5 volts first, then A.
    I kept increasing voltage till i got to 24volts. Output of channels voltage would be whatever was being applied by power supply. Would it be safe to apply 5volts and use resistor dividers on channels to get 3.3V or less?

    Troy

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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Hi Troy,

    That sounds like it is working properly.

    Try at 5V supply with each A B output connected to a 150 ohm resistor to GND. The outputs will probably not go to as high a level as before without any load to drive. Check what voltages you get at the output under load. If it is between 2.4 and 3.8V then you can connect them up to KFLOP inputs directly.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Ok. With voltage divider of 100 ohm resistor s. I got less than 1/2 a volt @ 5V input.
    So I applied 24volts and get channel output of 1.05volts.?.?
    Without Voltage divider the output is 24v.
    Does drive circuit need to see some sort of resistance before it will output at a LVTTL?

    Troy

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit-100ohm-voltdiv-jpg  
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Hi Troy,

    You did things differently than I intended. I didn't intend to have a voltage divider. Just a single 150ohm load. And I expected to read the voltage at the output.

    But that is ok. If I understand what you did.

    You call out "V-GND" and "Powersupply GROUND". Are those the same thing?

    Where is the scope GND connected?

    I think the output might be driving 24V (with a 24V supply) through a 2K Resistor (as seen on the PCB marked 202 - 20 and add 2 zeros). In that case we would expect to have at your scope connection:

    24V x 150ohms / (150ohms + 150ohms + 2000ohms) = 1.56V

    Did you mean to say 1.5V or 1.05V ?

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Yes V-GND and Powersupply GROUND are the same.

    Scope GND is not connected. Did not know where to connect it. I have not used a scope much so my understanding of one is low.

    1.05V channel output with 100ohm voltage divider.

    If i use a resistance of 155 ohms to gnd. I get an output of 1.71 Volts and when output toggle off, voltage reads 74.1 mV.

    Troy

    Last edited by Need TECH Help!; 04-17-2017 at 09:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Hi Troy,

    You should connect the Scope Probe GND to the GND of whatever you are measuring. In this case V-GND.

    Note some scopes have a connection from their GND to Earth GND. (which is why it may be working without any GND). I usually disconnect that using a GND isolation Plug on the scope. You might want to determine if your scope has a connection to Earth GND by using an Ohm meter. Its nice to know.

    Is your 24V supply isolated from Earth GND?

    But anyway that seems to make sense now with 100 ohm resistors:

    24V x 100ohms / (100ohms + 100ohms + 2000ohms) = 1.09V (close enough)

    I think we now need to decide where to connect it to KFLOP/Kanalog/Konnect. The main decision is whether it needs to be connected to a hardware encoder input or software encoder input. Hardware is good because it can handle high speed counting up to 1MHz. But has the disadvantage of limited pins, voltages, etc... Software is good because any inputs can be used. But has the disadvantage of a max count rate of ~3KHz. That is usually adequate for most MPGs. I'd suggest trying Software first because it is easy and if there are any issues with spinning the MPG fast figure out a hardware solution.

    Since Konnect has screw terminals and can accept 24V signals I'd try that. Connect a Konnect Common to V-GND and the A B signals directly to the Konnect Inputs. Konnect Inputs are like a 4K Ohm load so they should be driven to:

    24V x 4K / (2K+4K) = 16V

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Yes, scope has connection to earth ground.
    Benchtop power supply is not isolated from Earth Ground. Shows about .8 ohms.

    Will do on connecting to Konnect. It will be a while before i get to test it out.Still need to make cable for pendant. And finish wiring diagrams, I have about 90% of my wiring diagrams done for mill. Next to sort out is the VFD Rs485 to Rs232 RedLion converter so i can interface to Kanalog.

    Thanks again for help and patience

    Troy

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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Working on VFD to Kanalog connection. Making the RS232 cabling for RS485 converter . The converter iam using is a RedLion ICM5. The converter has dip switches to set it as a DTE or DCE device. Am i understanding correctly that it should be set as a DTE device and Kanalog JP10 is the DCE device?

    Troy

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit-red-lion-rs232tors485-pdf  
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    That sounds correct to me. The normal idea with RS232 is to have one device talk (TX) to pin 2 and one device listen (RX) to pin 2. But the other piece of the puzzle is how the cables are made.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Here is an xls sheet of my cable connection for RS232. Not sure about sheild drain thow. I show it being connected to GND pin at Kanalog JP10. The manual of Kanalog show shields on pins 7 & 8, but where is this as JP10 is only 6 pins?
    Troy

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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Hi Troy,

    Pin 1 is also Kanalog GND which might be used for the shield.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Kanalog SWE switch wiring

    I plan to use Kanalog's JP8 Switch Enable All (SWE) output for my main Machine Control Relay/Contactor. The contactor coil will be controlled by a solid state relay(SSR) and this solid state relay will be controlled by Kanalog's Switch Enable All output. The SSR operates off of 3-32VDC. How would i wire this to Kanalog SWE?
    Example: Connect +24VDC power supply to plus side of SSR control input and Kanalog SWE output to minus side of SSR control input. Then connect the 24VDC power supply minus side to a Kanalog JP6 ground terminal?

    Looking at the Kanalog manual on JP8 and iam kinda lost on how the FET switch ground makes a connection for the 24VDC supply minus.

    Thanks for any help,
    Troy

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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Hi Troy,

    I plan to use Kanalog's JP8 Switch Enable All (SWE) output for my main Machine Control Relay/Contactor. The contactor coil will be controlled by a solid state relay(SSR) and this solid state relay will be controlled by Kanalog's Switch Enable All output. The SSR operates off of 3-32VDC. How would i wire this to Kanalog SWE?
    Example: Connect +24VDC power supply to plus side of SSR control input and Kanalog SWE output to minus side of SSR control input. Then connect the 24VDC power supply minus side to a Kanalog JP6 ground terminal?
    Yes

    Looking at the Kanalog manual on JP8 and iam kinda lost on how the FET switch ground makes a connection for the 24VDC supply minus
    The Kanalog FET Switch Grounds are not isolated they they are internally connected and are the same as all Kanalog (and KFLOP) GNDs. Usually they drive something like your SSR which provides Isolation anyway. So you must connect the associated 24V Supply GND to Kanalog GND. Note that if you then use this same 24V supply for other opto isolated circuitry that circuitry will not be isolated.

    HTH
    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Kanalog SWE switch wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Need TECH Help! View Post
    I plan to use Kanalog's JP8 Switch Enable All (SWE) output for my main Machine Control Relay/Contactor. The contactor coil will be controlled by a solid state relay(SSR) and this solid state relay will be controlled by Kanalog's Switch Enable All output. The SSR operates off of 3-32VDC. How would i wire this to Kanalog SWE?
    Example: Connect +24VDC power supply to plus side of SSR control input and Kanalog SWE output to minus side of SSR control input. Then connect the 24VDC power supply minus side to a Kanalog JP6 ground terminal?

    Looking at the Kanalog manual on JP8 and iam kinda lost on how the FET switch ground makes a connection for the 24VDC supply minus.

    Thanks for any help,
    Troy
    I dont think the enable all switch is controllable from Kflop, i think it just conducts once it boots up. Because of this I passed through one of the optical outs and then to the enable all output. I use these two outputs together (both need to be on) to control a SSR in the E-stop loop. This way the machine is guaranteed to be off on startup, and you can cut power to everything by controlling that output which is handy.



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    Default Re: Kanalog SWE switch wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by mmurray70 View Post
    I dont think the enable all switch is controllable from Kflop, i think it just conducts once it boots up. Because of this I passed through one of the optical outs and then to the enable all output. I use these two outputs together (both need to be on) to control a SSR in the E-stop loop. This way the machine is guaranteed to be off on startup, and you can cut power to everything by controlling that output which is handy.
    Maybe iam misunderstanding something, i read in another thread where Tom said "One thing you should be aware of is that for several seconds while Kanalog is powering up the Outputs may be in a random state (sorry about that). There is a signal SWE (Switch enable) that is guaranteed to remain off until all the other IO is initialized off. So you may want to setup to use SWE as a master disable for everything."

    How is the SWE controlling your EStop loop at boot up if the optical output is not active? Trying to picture your connections.

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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    I have them in series. So if either is off the machine is in e stop. On startup the enable is off and the optical is floating apparantly but it has to pass through both so it stays in e stop. So the negative terminal of your ssr would connect to pos side of an optical out and the neg of the op out would connect to enable.

    There might be better ways to do this but it worked out pretty good for me.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    One recommendation I was given when I done my lathe several years ago, was to have the E-stop circuit totally separate from the controller, as it removes the possibility of race conditions.

    On my machines, I design things so the E-stop ultimately cuts all power to anything that moves. When a machine is in E-stop, the only things still getting power are the controller(s), and inputs. Anything that can move, gets it's power removed.
    That means when E-stop is triggered, the servo/spindle drives lose power, and any signals the controller needs from those drives to ensure they are OK, are also lost, which is where you can quite quickly end up with a race situation trying to re-enable things.
    Do you ignore drive OK signals and still re-power the drives, before triggering a reset, and hoping the drives come back online OK? If the drives don't come back online, how many seconds do you give things before triggering the E-stop again?

    With that in mind, I use the SWE as part of the physical E-stop circuit (if the controller loses power, the machine will lose power). I then control any drive enables from the KFlop(or Kanalog/KStep/Konnect/...). The KFlop must see OK signals from all the drives before it enables anything (initialisation covers the need to trigger drive resets if OK signals are missing), and those OK signals are also continually monitored as part of an E-stop monitoring loop within the KFlop, and should any OK signal be lost (or any other condition that gets monitored), what I personally call a soft E-Stop gets triggered.

    To give you an idea of my E-stop monitoring script, here's an old version from my current mill project, which I'd copied from my lathe (hence the big chunks of commented out code, which will eventually get tidied up).-
    Code:
    #include "KMotionDef.h"
    
    estop_test()	// this function monitors for any estop condition
    {
    	int estopMes = 0;	// used for message displaying after estop kill has occured (message's are blocking)
    	// **** Start E-Stop Monitoring ****
    	
    	// if we're still initializing, then we don't check TC
    	/*if(!ReadBit(INIT)) {
    		// TC monitor - If we don't have TCOK other than when TC is active, then we have an issue
    		if(!ReadBit(TCOK) && !ReadBit(TCACTIVE)) {
    			ClearBit(SYSTEMOK);
    			estopMes = ESTCFAIL;
    			//printf("ESTOP TCOK and TCACTIVE low\n");
    		}
    	}*/
    	
    	// if external estop circuit is lost, or if any other input that should be active disappears, we have an issue
    	if (!ReadBit(ESTOP)){
    		ClearBit(SYSTEMOK);
    		estopMes = ESTRIGGD;
    		//printf("External EStop\n");
    	}
    	/*
    	if (!ReadBit(XREADY)){
    		ClearBit(SYSTEMOK);
    		estopMes = ESXFAIL;
    		//printf("X not ready\n");
    	}
    	
    	if (!ReadBit(ZREADY)){
    		ClearBit(SYSTEMOK);
    		estopMes = ESZFAIL;
    		//printf("Z not ready\n");
    	}
    	
    	// if either channel is not enabled, and we're not in the homing routine which needs to disable axis, we have an issue
    	if ((!ch0->Enable || !ch1->Enable) && !INHOMING){
    		ClearBit(SYSTEMOK);
    		estopMes = ESXZFAIL;
    		//printf("X or Z not enabled\n");
    	}
    	
    	// if spindle axis has faulted when it should be running, we need to stop things
    	if (!ch2->Enable){
    		ClearBit(SYSTEMOK);
    		estopMes = ESSPDL;
    		//printf("Spindle not enabled\n");
    	}*/
    	
    	// if system ok, then no faults found and we can enable servos
    	if(!ReadBit(SYSTEMOK) && !ReadBit(ESTOPHANDLED))
    	{					//kill everything
    		//ClearBit(SERVOENABLE);	// (it maybe gets enabled elsewhere, but we kill everything here, just to make sure)
    		DisableAxis(0);
    		DisableAxis(1);
    		DisableAxis(2);
    		ClearBit(XHOMED);
    		ClearBit(YHOMED);
    		ClearBit(ZHOMED);
    		ClearBit(COOLANT);
    		ClearBit(SPDLRUN);
    		//ClearBit(SPDLREV);
    		//ClearBit(INHOMING);
    		ClearBit(SYSTEMOK);
    		persist.UserData[TOOL_STATE_VAR] = T_IDLE; // set TC Idle (outputs will remain as set, so TC doesn't move after EStop)
    		//ClearBit(TCACTIVE);
    		//ClearBit(JOGALLOWED);
    		DoPC(PC_COMM_ESTOP);	// finally we'll tell KMotionCNC to EStop
    		printf("PC_COMM_ESTOP requested\n"); 
    		SetBit(ESTOPHANDLED);
    		printf("ESTOPHANDLED set\n");
    		
    				//double msgdel = Time_sec()+2;
    				//while(msgdel > Time_sec()){}
    				//printf("in estopMes\n");
    		switch(estopMes)
    			{
    				case(ESTCFAIL):		// TC failure
    					{
    					MsgBox("ESTOP!! ToolChanger - No OK signal",MB_OK|MB_ICONEXCLAMATION);
    					break;
    				}
    				case(ESTRIGGD):
    				{
    					MsgBox("ESTOP!! E-stop, or Limit switch activated",MB_OK|MB_ICONEXCLAMATION);
    					break;
    				}
    				case(ESXZFAIL):
    				{
    					MsgBox("ESTOP!! X or Z axis disabled while not in homing",MB_OK|MB_ICONEXCLAMATION);
    					break;
    				}
    				case(ESXFAIL):
    				{
    					MsgBox("ESTOP!! X axis drive not ready",MB_OK|MB_ICONEXCLAMATION);
    					break;
    				}
    				case(ESZFAIL):
    				{
    					MsgBox("ESTOP!! Z axis drive not ready",MB_OK|MB_ICONEXCLAMATION);
    					break;
    				}
    				case(ESSPDL):
    				{
    					MsgBox("ESTOP!! Spindle disabled",MB_OK|MB_ICONEXCLAMATION);
    					break;
    				}
    			}
    		/*if(ReadBit(ESTOPHANDLED)){
    			printf("ESTOPHANDLED set\n");
    		} else {
    			printf("ESTOPHANDLED not set\n");
    		}*/
    	}
    	// **** End E-Stop Monitoring ****
    }
    That goes in it's own standalone file, and gets included in my main init.c file, and the estop_test() called in the init.c's endless loop.
    I also use the following enum to make things a bit more legible-
    Code:
    //Enum stuff to make life easier
    enum estops {ESTCFAIL, ESTRIGGD, ESXZFAIL, ESXFAIL, ESZFAIL, ESSPDL};
    Having just had another scan over the estop monitor above, it's an old version that has been modified quite a bit since I copied it from the lathe. I'll have to dig out a pen drive for the latest version of the lathe code, as it will be more suitable than the mill code (lathe has analog servos, mill has steppers). I done a bit work to tidy it up the lathe code and iron out a few niggles, but the above should give you a general idea of how I handle things.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Thanks for the code m_c.
    Here is a wiring diagram i have so far including the E-Stop circuit/loop. Anyone have time to look at it? See any issues?

    Thanks for any info,
    Troy

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit-estopcircuit-schematic-pdf  
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    First thing that stands out, is I'd move the E-stop opto input so it's picking up the signal directly at the contactor. The way it currently is, is if the SSR failed for some reason, the opto would still be connected to 0V through the switches and remain active.
    And do you really need the SSR? How much current does the main contactor coil draw?

    The other thing is the Enable inputs to the drives. As it stands, the drives will enable as soon as everything powers up, which will be before the KFlop has initialised the relevant servo loops, so the servos are very likely to drift until the KFlop is initialised.
    Also, do the enables really need connected to 0V to activate? The drives I normally use, the enables need 24V applied.


    FWIW, I normally have the E-stop circuit so the 24V side is being switched. This way, should any wiring faults occur where the wiring gets shorted to GND/0V (which is more likely than being shorted to 24V), the power supply will trip out, which is safer than the E-stop circuit failing to work when you need it.



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