K2cnc spindle stopped for KG-4925

[Rob505]

Russ,

what you would normally do is configure the M3 command to set bit 34 to a 1, and M5 command would set bit 35 to a 0.

When the I/O screen shows the "state" box 34 checked does this mean the bit is set to 1? And consequently unchecked means the bit is set to 0?

The fact that Kmotion now is printing out the the console the spindle is set to a given RPM and PWM signal is good. Are you still hearing the relay click when you issue the M3 command? Keep in mind the spindle will not turn even in you have the speed signal if the M3 command does not close the relay. Did this spindle ever work correctly? If the relay is indeed closing and the PWM signal is really there we need to troubleshoot the components that convert the PWM signal into a analog voltage. With Spindle set at 9000 RPM the voltage going to the spindle should actually be 5V.

Yes, still hear the click and the ohm reading form pins FWD/DCM indicate the relay is closed with M3 and open with M5.

Robert

[Rob505]

Robert,

JP6 - AUX1

PIN-12
IO31
Gen Purpose LVTTL I/O (3.3V Only) or PWM5 out

Check this pin to see if you have a voltage between Pin-12 and GROUND.


Russ

Russ,

I ran tests on the following JP6-Aux1 Pin #12 with some promising results. However, nothing reads close to 3.3 volts. see below:
S3000 > 1.94 DVC console lists PWM @ 213
S6000 > 1.44 DVC pwm @ 170
S9000 > 0.96 DVC pwm @ 128

Robert

[Rob505]

Schematics!

I found these in a folder marked Delta. Do these help?

Robert

[CNCMAN172]

Robert,

Yes, those reading are very promising and they look pretty good. The fact they are changing as the RPM request changed is perfect. The voltage expected was just a guess on my part, but this looks good.

I have a meeting here at work for a few hours will examine the schematics when I get back in a while. Thanks

Russ

[Rob505]

Thanks Russ. Also I just tested for DVC at the ACU/AUI pins and NO Changes! It reads 0.063 DCV.
So I'm getting pwm at the Aux1-pin 12 but not at the ACU/AUI pins.

Robert

[CNCMAN172]

Robert,

The schematics was a great find. This is the schematic of the K2CNC breakout card Rev 4. If you look at the one labeled as Delta_AC_Breakout_Board.pdf and look at the bottom right corner of page 1 of that schematic that is what we are attempting to troubleshoot.

The OPAMP labeled U13.1 is where the speed signal gets generated, that will be 0 to 10VDC. The interesting thing that caught my eye was the PWM input is labeled "0_PWM_7", which seems to imply it expects the PWM from the 7th generator, I am reviewing this schematic in detail and will have to have you make some measurements with an ohm meter to confirm the connection. This could be the root caused, more to follow shortly.

Russ

[CNCMAN172]

Robert,

I think I see the issue you have if the schematic you found is indeed correct. I can have you buzz out a couple connections to verify but here is what I believe the issue is on your system.

The file below is K2_SpindlePWM.c

Note: this program is currently coded to use PWM #5, however the schematic you found shows the Spindle output is created using PWM #7, which is hard wired to the OPAMP.

If you can find a ohm meter and you can measure between KFLOP J6-14 to R19 on the breakout board which is right next to the BLUE POT, near the end with the screw driver adjustment. Measure between these two points and keep in mind to check both side of the resistor to J6-14. If you get a very low reading near zero ohms this confirms the board you have is wired just like the schematic shows. If you can verify this then you can fix your spindle by making the following change to the program below.

On the line that says #define PWM_Number 5 //0-7 please change that line to #define PWM_NUMBER 7

Save the file and recompile and download. Then when you issue the command M3 S9000 the spindle should spin correctly. Let me know.


Russ






***********************************************

K2_SpindlePWM.c


#include "KMotionDef.h"

#define MAX_RPM 18000.0f
#define PWM_NUMBER 5 //0-7
#define pdSpindleRPM 35

//#define INVERT

main()
{
int pwm;
float speed = *(float *)&persist.UserData[pdSpindleRPM]; // value stored is actually a float

pwm = speed/MAX_RPM * 255.0f;

if (pwm > 255) pwm=255; // limit to max pwm value
#ifndef INVERT
pwm = 255 - pwm; // set the PWM
#endif

//pwm = 128;//165-175

printf("Spindle Set to %f pwm %d\n",speed, pwm); // print the desired speed
SetBitDirection(26+PWM_NUMBER,1); // Set bit PWM pin as an output
FPGA(IO_PWMS+2*PWM_NUMBER+1) = 1; // enable the PWM
FPGA(IO_PWMS+2*PWM_NUMBER) = pwm; // set the PWM
}

[Rob505]

Russ,

OK, I turned everything off and unplugged. And tested between R19 and JP6-Aux 14. One side of R19 was low, 0.2 ohms, the other side of R19 was high, 329 ohms.

I will now work on changing the program but I might have to finish tomorrow.

Robert

[Rob505]

OK, just tried it and it does not work........
I will review it again tomorrow to see if I did something wrong.

Thanks,
Robert

[CNCMAN172]

Robert,

Perfect, that confirms the schematic matches the board and when you change the program and compile and download it things should start working. Keep your fingers crossed.

Russ

[CNCMAN172]

Robert,

Please measure the voltage across C12, this is a capacitor just to the right of the OPAMP U13. There should be 12VDC across that cap if you do NOT have 12VDC there the board will not be able to output the 0 to 10V to the spindle.

When you made that program change to start using PWM7 instead of PMW5 that should have directed that signal to IO33, JP6-Pin 14. As a test you can run the tests below again. If they are still changing at JP6-12 then the program is not being executed.

We need to ask Tom if there is anyway to tell what is flashed into KFLOP that runs on startup. That last changed should have given you voltage out to the spindle if the 12VDC supply is good. Confused???


Russ,

I ran tests on the following JP6-Aux1 Pin #12 with some promising results. However, nothing reads close to 3.3 volts. see below:
S3000 > 1.94 DVC console lists PWM @ 213
S6000 > 1.44 DVC pwm @ 170
S9000 > 0.96 DVC pwm @ 128

Robert

[TomKerekes]

Hi Russ,

We need to ask Tom if there is anyway to tell what is flashed into KFLOP that runs on startup.

Unfortunately not. Only the binary executable code is downloaded to KFLOP. We count on the User to keep track of what is Flashed into KFLOP.

Regards

[Rob505]

Hi Russ,

I was pulled away this morning but now I have some time.
Here is whats been down so far:

1: I changed the Var for S from 31 to 35. All other Var numbers and thread numbers were left the same. Results: now the console registers that a signal is being sent. Buttons "cw" or "send" or M4 will send a message to the console. M3 and M5 do not send anything to the console but they make the board click.

2: Changed the spindle program to read - #define PWM_NUMBER 7 instead of #define PWM_NUMBER 5 //0-7 Results: JP6-Pin 14 now tests for VDC bwtween 0.9-1.95 when spindle speed is changed. However, Spindle does not run.

3: Tested for VDC across C12 with power on. Results: 12 VDC I little higher than 10 VDC but I think this is a good sign.

4: Tested for VDC across pins ACM/AUI
Results:
S3000 > 2.7 VDC
S6000 > 2.2 VDC
S9000 > 1.7 VDC

I'm also now getting VDC! But Still no spindle turning!

Robert

[CNCMAN172]

Tom,

When he upgrade the KFLOP to a new version did that wipe out the programs flashed inside of the KFLOP? The strange issue is when he checks the voltages on the J6 connector for PWM#5 they are clearly changing with each "S" command issued, as expected. However, when I examined the actual schematic of the breakout board and determined they actually hard wire the PWM#7 directly to the OPAMP that is used to develop the 0 to 10V signal for the spindle. I had him change the spindle program to use PWM#7 but he said that did not fix the issue. What happens if you have a program flashed and you write the same program and download it into KFLOP? It appears to me that stuff downloaded in KFLOP is still running, if you look at his screens the M3, M5 command still work regardless of what is in the threads that provide that capability. My guess was they were using the toggle of IO, but the KmotionCNC showed a simple C program which does not appear to have any impact.

Comments??

Russ

[CNCMAN172]

Robert,

The voltages you are measuring across ACM to AUI look much better and should allow the spindle to run IF the relay is actually closing and shorting FWD to DCM. You must have both situations to allow the spindle to run as well as power to the VFD and the VFD is turned ON.
Also make sure you did not forget to put the VFD back to remote control. You can check that really quick if you can turn the spindle by using the controls on the VFD then you have the VFD programmed incorrectly.

The one thing that appears wrong is the fact that S9000 is only producing 1.7 VDC, and if you have a spindle with a max speed of 18000 RPM, the voltage should be right at 5 VDC, when requested to spin at 9000 RPM. The 12V you measured across C12 is correct, the OPAMP produces a voltage of 0-10V as an output depending on what is coming into the OPAMP via a PWM signal.

You can take the cable off the breakout board that goes to the spindle and measure the signals at the J9 connector. If you can confirm when you issue the M3 command the relay closes and you have close to zero ohms between FWD and DCM the relay is working. When you issue a M5 command the relay should open and you should measure near infinite reading which means an open which is correct. The M4 is not used because that is to spin the motor in reverse and that is not even wired in the VFD. Then check the S commands and measure the voltages again. Also check S0 and S18000 get both of those voltages. This could be just something programmed wrong in the VFD or there still could be another problem.


Russ

[Rob505]

Russ,

What else is needed to run the spindle besides spindle on with FWD/DCM pins and a voltage sent to ACM/AUI pins?

After I change the spindle program I now have voltage changes to the spindle and on/off. The display on the spindle lights up "run" when I tell it to and "stop" when I tell it too but no f,h or u change. Why doesn't the voltage at the pins do anything? Too low? Spindle not programed correctly. I've been looking at the spindle manual, looks simple but complicated because I'm not familiar with wiring diagrams or program menus.

Robert

[CNCMAN172]

Robert,

Has this spindle ever turned on since you started working with this machine? The VFD must be programmed correctly to run and I can send you parameters to check in the VFD. Just want to know if this has ever worked at all?

Russ

[CNCMAN172]

Robert,

You need to check these parameters in the VFD. See attached manual.

Look at page 5-11

02-00 needs to be set to 03
02-01 needs to be set to 01
02-05 needs to be set to 01
02-10 needs to be set to 03

Before you change anything. WRITE DOWN all the setting in the VFD prior to starting.

You must be very careful with a spindle they are not designed to run at very slow speeds as they can burn up. Most spindles of this nature have a range of 6000 to 18000 RPM.

I did not see a picture of your spindle, but usually the software and VFD is programmed in a way that any command issued that is slower than 6000 RPM results in 6000 RPM to protect the spindle, except zero.

Russ

[Rob505]

Russ,

I think you are on to something. Finally numbers are bouncing around on the VFD display. Things looked like this:

02-00 needs to be set to 03 (mine was set to 04)
02-01 needs to be set to 01 (mine was set to 01)
02-05 needs to be set to 01 (mine was set to 00)
02-10 needs to be set to 03 (mine was set to 00)

Now the VFD display reads f 45.00 when set at S9000. It changes up/down when S# is changed.

But still no spindle turning! so close!

Robert

[Rob505]

Russ,

What voltage should I see at terminals U/T1, V/T2, and W/T3 inside the VFD? I'm getting 20 Vac. At input terminals I'm getting 120 Vac.

Robert