Dynapath Delta 40M repair info


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    Default Dynapath Delta 40M repair info

    I recently finished repairing a Dynapath Delta 40M control on a Chevalier Falcon knee-mill and would like to share my experience so others can avoid the mistakes I made.

    The control showed signs of impending failure years ago. I'm told that the operator wasn't able to load a part program from the control's internal memory. Likewise, new programs wouldn't save. Our shop has 4 VMCs and an HMC, so the little knee-mill was abandoned from use and sat for 2-3 years. But as my company's first CNC, I think this machine has a special place in my boss's heart. So I was asked to get it working again.
    When I powered it on, the first thing I noticed was that the system clock was not set and the AT keyboard must be connected to get past the bios post. We didn't have one nor did we have an AT->PS2 adapter, so I couldn't start the control. The PC mainboard in this control has a non-replaceable 3-cell Ni-CAD battery which is soldered to the board. So being that the machine sat for years, this error might not mean the battery is shot. Leaving the power on for an hour or so could fix this problem by allowing that battery to charge. Not the case for me: Upon opening up the control, I saw this battery was covered in crusty white crud which is a good sign that its shot. I removed the mainboard and de-soldered the old battery. I found a replacement of the same style at a local electronics store with the only difference being that the new one was Ni-MH. Ni-MH and Ni-CAD batteries are trickle charged the same way (quick charging however requires different peak-detection methods), so it was a compatible replacement. I soldered the new battery on and it solved that problem. I still had to get an AT->PS2 adapter to set the system clock, though. For those not familiar with the AT keyboard interface, it is a standard PC keyboard except the connector is a full-size 5-pin DIN connector whereas PS2 uses a 6-pin mini-DIN.
    With that out of the way, I was able to start up the machine. Next problem: After booting up into the control's OS, I received an error message on the first screen. It said "Touch soft-key invalid or not present" and none of the panel keys seemed to work. The 7 software buttons below the monitor did however work. I thought that the "key" referred to in the error was the panel keyboard and wasted several hours swapping the key-panel out with one from a working Delta-20 on another machine. I called Dynapath and found out that the "key" referred to in the error is a hardware key-chip located on the servo transducer board. It contains the control serial number and locks the control software (which also has the serial number) of that particular machine to its hardware. So the control software from one machine cannot be used on a different, yet identical, machine unless this key chip is swapped as well. The key chip looks like a thick button-cell battery and Dynapath told me they've had countless people mistake it as one and fry their ST board by replacing it with a battery of similar size!
    After telling a Dynapath tech my control's symptoms, I was told I needed a new key chip. It cost $120 and I had to tell them the control's serial number so it could be properly programmed. Here's a little more detail about the symptoms I was having:
    1) Error message on first screen: "Touch soft-key invalid or not present"
    2) CNC executive ID displayed all ???????. (This means the control can't read the serial number from the key chip). PLC ID number was still there.
    3) All front-panel keys did nothing except bring the contol out of standy.

    I played with it while I was waiting for the new key chip to arrive and found more symptoms. With the control cover removed I powered-on the machine and noticed that sometimes the watchdog timer LED would come on immediately and sometimes a few seconds after releasing the E-stop. This LED is on the I/O board near the bottom. I think it was labeled something like "com/timeout". Anyway, if this LED is lit, it means that the PLC has lost communication with the rest of the system and the E-stop is set (regardless of whether the E-stop switch is in or out). Every 5 seconds the I/O board sends a short message (ping) to the PLC (which is located in the control pendant behind the key-panel) to see if it is still there. If it doesn't receive an echo ping back from the PLC within a certain amount of time, communication is stopped, E-stop is set, and this error LED lights. This check circuit is commonly known in the realm of electronics as a watchdog timer. When the LED wasn't lit, releasing the E-stop would cause the servos to come on and hold. But this never lasted for more than 2-3 seconds before that watchdog timer LED would light and disable everything.

    If your watchdog timer LED comes on somewhat randomly, it is a hint! If it always comes on at the same time when you do something, a different issue is implicated. But when it lights somewhat randomly, it means you either have random EMF interference being picked up in the RS-232 cable between the I/O board and the PLC, or you have hardware which hasn't completely failed but is teetering on the verge of failure. A bad connection of the RS-232 cable will more likely present itself consistently, but its an easy thing to rule out by cleaning the connectors with contact cleaner.

    When I received the key chip, it only took a couple minutes to install it and discover that it did not solve my problem. At this point I figured I didn't have the resources to test each of the control's boards, so I sent the control to Dynapath. They didn't require the PLC, so it was easy: Just disconnect all the wires, remove the four screws holding the control box to the main enclosure and ship in a good container or box.

    It turned out that the PC mainboard was at fault. The ISA bus which all the Dynapath boards use to communicate with each other, was not working properly due to aging components. That explains why the machine operator wasn't able to load a part program: The control stores all the parameters, setup info and part programs on an ISA card called the memory board. Data wasn't getting through the ISA bus from this board at that point. By the time I started messing with it, it further failed to the point where the I/O board and the servo transducer board (containing the hardware key chip) couldn't communicate, thus the "??????" for CNC executive ID. BTW, Dynapath told me that when this is the case, all functionality is disabled by design. So if you have those question marks, don't expect to be able to get anywhere by messing with it, because at that point, the control has locked you out.

    A new replacement mainboard from Dynapath cost $895. I believe that if you are strapped for cash, this board could be replaced with most any PC mainboard circa 1994, but it does have some special features that aren't necessarily required. One such feature is the CMOS battery which is rechargeable whereas typically these are non-rechargeable CR2032 lithium button cell batteries. Don't expect a lithium cell to last the 16 years that the rechargeable one did. 5 years is about average, but they're easy to replace so it really isn't a big deal. The other special feature is the expansion bus slot layout. Any substitute mainboard is going to need at least 4 ISA slots. The mainboard used in this control has what looks like PCI slots butted up to the end of a few of the ISA slots. None of the control cards in my machine used these, and I believe their presence means this is a server board. The only things I've ever seen to use this ISA and PCI-like slot style are processor boards in servers where you can add processors to your system by simply inserting another processor board into one of these slots. Don't know, its kinda from before my time. For sure though, unless you find a PCI to ISA expansion card, the newest mainboard that will have 4 legacy ISA slots will be from a Pentium III or equivalent system. I'm pretty sure ISA was completely phased out when the P4 processor was introduced. Regardless, the original processor in this control is a whopping 33Mhz, so a PIII at up to 1.2Ghz is wayyyyy more than enough processing power for running NC programs. You'll never even see any benefit from a more powerful processor than the original except perhaps in decreased boot time.

    Back to my machine. After Dynapath diagnosed and replaced the PC mainboard, my machine now worked.... until I tried to reference home. The following is a completely different issue and has nothing to do with the control, but everything to do with diagnosing servo problems.

    When the y-axis was commanded to find the limit switch during the reference-home process, it would jump back and forth rapidly and run-away until I hit E-stop or until the control realized it had lost control of the servo. I took the servo out and when I removed the orange end-cap, way-lube poured out! Not good. I cleaned the living piss out of the encoder and the rest of the servo as well as I could without further disassembly, but the problem persisted. I was about to send the $400+ encoder to a professional repair place, but decided to further disassemble the servo first. What I found was all four of the small brushes in the back were broken. Probably from sitting saturated in oil. This rotor and brush setup in the back of the servo is the tachometer generator. It generates a voltage when the servo is running which the control uses to determine if the servo is running at the correct speed. If the axis is loaded, the servo RPM will drop unless the power is increased to keep it in sync. The tach-gen voltage is used by the control to sense this and keep the RPMs exactly where they should be under varying loads.
    And it was the broken brushes on the tach-gen that were causing the axis to jump around wildly. Replacement brushes were expensive as far as brushes go: $11.20 ea from a local electric motor repair shop. But it was a lot cheaper than the cost I would have incurred if I had sent the encoder for unnecessary repair (was gonna be a $120 minimum charge).

    So now the machine and control work perfectly and the machine is back in use making parts. One nice thing about this machine is that with 5 machining centers at our shop, none of the operators want to use it. So its pretty much always available for tool and setup making purposes (and personal jobs).

    I hope anybody seeking help with this control is able to make use of my experience and I welcome any questions you might have. If you have any questions I might be able to help with, email me at SSmachining@yahoo.com

    PS, I personally own a Supermax YCM-40 with a Centroid M-50 control and have experience upgrading the internal PC and performing other repairs, so if you've got questions regarding this machine I'm more than happy to help.

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    Default DynaPath Delta 40MU

    Hi, I found your post quite informative. I have the control you are referring to and recently the battery must have died. Now, the control says the CMOS system options are not set. Do you have some idea about what these settings would be and how I would get to the to set them? Do I have to plug in a standard computer keyboard?

    Thanks!



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    Yes, you will need to use a standard AT style keyboerd.



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    You will have to use the AT keyboard. If you don't have one, I doubt you can find one for sale anywhere, but a 5 pin DIN to 6 pin mini-DIN adapter will work with a standard PS2 keyboard. They don't have them at radio shack, but if there's a Frys near you, they carry them. Or order online.
    If the battery is dead, the first thing you will see is "System clock is not set. Press F1 to enter setup" or something similar. This will show before the system boots into the Dynapath OS. If the message occurs after the OS is loaded, it is a problem with the memory daughterboard and requires a different battery.
    Let me know which parameters you need and I will get them off my machine for you.



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    Nice write up. a few notes. Be careful on replacing the back plane motherboard with anything other than what Dynapath has deemed acceptable. It was a commercial/industrial unit and timing in the bios is very important to accuracy of the servo system.

    Another note for the Delta 40-60 CNC - If you loose the RS232 you can add an ISA RS232 board and turn of the motherboard's. Very inexpensive if you can fined them. We still stock a few for our customers.

    Regards,
    Gwiz



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    Default Re: Dynapath Delta 40M repair info

    i'm hoping you may be able to help a newbie with a chevalier fm-63rd controlled with a dynapath 40mu controller.

    i purchased the machine last week after watching it manual jog perfectly. i brought the machine home (290 miles), ordered a 10hp rotory phase converter, while i was waiting i noticed all the insructions said to hook up 220v power to 2 leads of the cord to figure out which leads run the cpu, oiler, servo drives. i powered up on 220v until i got cooling fans, cpu, etc. the monitor showed typical ami boot, memory check, drive not ready, #%%$##@...i cycled the power about 15 times and it finally booted into dynapath, i tried to manual jog, but the z axis led was real weak, and flickering. tried to reference the machine and it thru a z axis failed and shut down. reset the error, tried to reference, z axis shut down again... powered down, and waited 2 days for the rotory converter, when it finally arrived, hooked everything up, oiled the bearings in the motor, fired it up and got drive not ready, tried rebooting for 4hrs and i haven't seen the dynapath boot screen since..#%%^%$##... of coarse the manuals were lost 20yrs ago, i checked all the obvious voltages. powersupply 12.2vdc and 5.04vdc. there are some voltages off the main transformer that apear +/-20% low, but without books i'm lost.... i notice the cambus led flashes green a few times then blinks red and stops long before the cpu even gets to ram check. the plc green flashes nonstop..no leds on servo controls..



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    Quote Originally Posted by swhowardno1 View Post
    i'm hoping you may be able to help a newbie with a chevalier fm-63rd controlled with a dynapath 40mu controller.

    i purchased the machine last week after watching it manual jog perfectly. i brought the machine home (290 miles), ordered a 10hp rotory phase converter, while i was waiting i noticed all the insructions said to hook up 220v power to 2 leads of the cord to figure out which leads run the cpu, oiler, servo drives. i powered up on 220v until i got cooling fans, cpu, etc. the monitor showed typical ami boot, memory check, drive not ready, #%%$##@...i cycled the power about 15 times and it finally booted into dynapath, i tried to manual jog, but the z axis led was real weak, and flickering. tried to reference the machine and it thru a z axis failed and shut down. reset the error, tried to reference, z axis shut down again... powered down, and waited 2 days for the rotory converter, when it finally arrived, hooked everything up, oiled the bearings in the motor, fired it up and got drive not ready, tried rebooting for 4hrs and i haven't seen the dynapath boot screen since..#%%^%$##... of coarse the manuals were lost 20yrs ago, i checked all the obvious voltages. powersupply 12.2vdc and 5.04vdc. there are some voltages off the main transformer that apear +/-20% low, but without books i'm lost.... i notice the cambus led flashes green a few times then blinks red and stops long before the cpu even gets to ram check. the plc green flashes nonstop..no leds on servo controls..
    making progress..
    took the rotory phase converter out, went back to 220v 1phase i unplugged each board from backplane, and reset each several times. restarted computer and dynapath bootloader loaded software, reference not set, reset, jog, manual jog x works, manual jog y works, manual drive z error no motion. switched wires between z and y, got runaway error on z..its reading the encoder. but not driving the servo. anyone recognise this servo driver board?? any schematics or trouble shooting info..Servo Dynamics Dynapath SDFPO1525-17

    i have 3 red leds almost lit(vol,gnd,sur), green is weak on startup and dies quick.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dynapath Delta 40M repair info-20200215_135833-jpg  


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    Default Re: Dynapath Delta 40M repair info

    Quote Originally Posted by swhowardno1 View Post
    i powered up on 220v until i got cooling fans, cpu, etc. the monitor showed typical ami boot, memory check, drive not ready, #%%$##@...
    1st off...do you plan on keeping the Dynapath 40 controller?
    If yes, does it have a Floppy drive and/or HDD?
    Do you have a RS232 serial cable to hookup to the Com1 port?
    Do you have an old AT type keyboard available? this will be needed to Access the BIOS if needed.

    Upload some good Photos of Drives etc....would help when online troubleshooting.....



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    Default Re: Dynapath Delta 40M repair info



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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehop5 View Post
    1st off...do you plan on keeping the Dynapath 40 controller?
    If yes, does it have a Floppy drive and/or HDD?
    Do you have a RS232 serial cable to hookup to the Com1 port?
    Do you have an old AT type keyboard available? this will be needed to Access the BIOS if needed.

    Upload some good Photos of Drives etc....would help when online troubleshooting.....
    i would like to keep the dynapath 40mu, it does have the floppy drive, i have a usb to serial adaptor that has worked for other projects, no keyboard, i saw one the otherday second hand for $5 but didn't buy it, now i'm wishin i did. i do not have the original disk from dynapath, or manuals. right now my biggest hurtle is after purchasing the machine, even at the really good price(+/-$1000), cost to pick it up, costs for phase converter, i can't affort to send it in for repair. i have got the dynapath to bootload consistantly now on 220v 1phase, x and y axis's manual jog fine, but the z axis driver is smoking, D13(upper left hand side in picture) was showing signs of overheating around the solder joints, pulled it, tested fine, cleaned leads and reinstalled, still smoking in that quarter of board, posibably opto amp, or something else in that area. i'm having a hard time troubleshooting. tommarrow I'll pull a working board and test point for point and see if i can find the problem.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dynapath Delta 40M repair info-20200215_132017-jpg   Dynapath Delta 40M repair info-20200215_132148-jpg   Dynapath Delta 40M repair info-20200215_131632-jpg   Dynapath Delta 40M repair info-20200215_135824-jpg  



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    here is the board and a closeup of d13

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dynapath Delta 40M repair info-20200215_205102-jpg   Dynapath Delta 40M repair info-20200215_205114-jpg  


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    Default Re: Dynapath Delta 40M repair info

    Quote Originally Posted by swhowardno1 View Post
    switched wires between z and y, got runaway error on z..its reading the encoder. but not driving the servo. anyone recognise this servo driver board?? any schematics or trouble shooting info..Servo Dynamics Dynapath SDFPO1525-17
    ...I would double check the motor brushes on Z axis and for lose wires between Amp and Motor may have caused that Diode to overheat and fail. Of coarse Z axe also gets the most used drillling holes, etc.

    Got lucky and found this.... thx jmcolee
    http://jmcolee.com/CNC/SD-1525.pdf

    DJ

    Last edited by machinehop5; 02-16-2020 at 07:38 AM. Reason: lucky


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    Default Re: Dynapath Delta 40M repair info

    Quote Originally Posted by swhowardno1 View Post
    i do not have the original disk from dynapath, or manuals. right now my biggest hurtle is after purchasing the machine, even at the really good price(+/-$1000), cost to pick it up, costs for phase converter, i can't affort to send it in for repair. i have got the dynapath to bootload consistantly now on 220v 1phase,
    Don't you love it when a plan comes together...as planned. lol. one step forward and two steps back sometimes for sure. speaking of Backups...
    you need to try using the FDD/Com Port 1 to backup the "PLC USER PROGRAM" and the "MTB PARAMETERS" files. The way to get to those Screen's is when the Dynapath first starts up is to type PLC or PAR. These files are small so. they'll fit on a pre-formatted 720k or 1.44mb flop ..but are very important. Also, when saving files the names can only be a max of 8 digits....like PLCUSER or MTBPARAS..I used.

    Dynapath Delta 40M repair info-feb2020-001-jpg

    When the above Screen (startup) appears use the Dynapath keys and type PLC

    Dynapath Delta 40M repair info-feb2020-002-jpg

    The above screen should appear, then hit softkey under Transmit/Receive

    Dynapath Delta 40M repair info-feb2020-003-jpg

    The above next screen should appear. Put in a Floppy in to FDD...then type S4 or (what ever number on your machine) for PLC USER PROGRAM and hit Enter ...then some Hexidecimal numbers to right will appear ...then type T2 (or what ever number on your machine for Floppy drive) and hit Enter to set Target Device to Floppy... the softkey under TARGET PARAM EDIT will appear... hit it and the control will than try to read Drive A and list of any files on the Disk. its at this point you can Type in any File Name you want to use 8 bits max..then hi Enter. I used PLCUSER for PLC User program.....after you pick a name and Entered it.....then hit EXIT EDIT....then use the softkey TRANSMIT to write the File to the Drive A:
    After, successful Transmit the word DONE should appear.

    Power down the control few minutes and reboot and repeat for the PAR File. aka MTB PARAMETERS
    Any problems let me know

    Dynapath Delta 40M repair info-feb2020-005-jpgDynapath Delta 40M repair info-feb2020-006-jpg

    Last edited by machinehop5; 02-17-2020 at 05:34 AM. Reason: more details


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    Default Re: Dynapath Delta 40M repair info

    thank you for the manual, i unplugged my smoking z axis, powered up thd machine, now my x axis is tripped with VOL and SUR led lit...aaarrrrgggg..



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    Default Re: Dynapath Delta 40M repair info

    your welcome....did you try the Reset next to the led's.



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    Default Re: Dynapath Delta 40M repair info

    i managed to get x reset, it works again, then i stepped thru resistance testing a good board vs a bad board, at first there were several huge variations, but i worked my way to a capacitor at c52, couldnt test it with my cap tester, but i changed it anyway because i had 1 handy, now every point i test is +/- 5% between the two boards.. i'll plug it in and test it tommarrow, right now my eyes are shot from following contact points for 12 hrs straight...i know it cant possibly be that simple...

    im having problems deciphering the instructions to backup the plc and paramaters, are there more detailed instructions somewhere?? i am assuming i have to use the softkey drop to dos and use an AT keyboard ( with 5pin din) to copy c:\*.* a:\ ...I can't seem to remember the switch to copy hidden/readonly files i may have to drive 60 miles round trip to buy the last AT keyboard i have seen in the last 20yrs (ebay wants $200 for an original AT keyboard)...ouch....



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    Default Re: Dynapath Delta 40M repair info

    Quote Originally Posted by swhowardno1 View Post
    i managed to get x reset, it works again, then i stepped thru resistance testing a good board vs a bad board, at first there were several huge variations, but i worked my way to a capacitor at c52, couldnt test it with my cap tester, but i changed it anyway because i had 1 handy, now every point i test is +/- 5% between the two boards.. i'll plug it in and test it tommarrow, right now my eyes are shot from following contact points for 12 hrs straight...i know it cant possibly be that simple...
    Great X works..always like those easy fixes. Hopefully, you can fix the Z axis with your board level knowledge.




    Quote Originally Posted by swhowardno1 View Post
    im having problems deciphering the instructions to backup the plc and paramaters, are there more detailed instructions somewhere?? i am assuming i have to use the softkey drop to dos and use an AT keyboard ( with 5pin din) to copy c:\*.* a:\ ...I can't seem to remember the switch to copy hidden/readonly files i may have to drive 60 miles round trip to buy the last AT keyboard i have seen in the last 20yrs (ebay wants $200 for an original AT keyboard)...ouch....
    I edited my earlier Post above with a little more step by step detail...see if that helps. As far you needing the AT Keyboard to Backup the PLC and PAR Files...do not need it. Dynapath keypads only.

    good luck testing Z today..
    DJ



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    Default Re: Dynapath Delta 40M repair info

    the backup insructions are much clearer now, they should sticky that at the top of the dynapath forum, its something everyone needs, right up there with change the cmos battery with the computer running to retain memory.(socketed type batteries ONLY... DO NOT solder on ANYTHING while the machine is turned on)????



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    thank you for the info on how to backup plc and parameters. worked perfectly, now i have 3 copies put away just incase..still no luck with z axis servo amp. i have changed the main cap 220uf @ 200v c57 and c52 100uf@ 25v that got rid of several leds, now i have faint green ready, and SUR lit. will go thru it again. i ordered most of the major components because there only 1-3$ on ebay, so if nothing else i'll just start swapping parts out...



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    Default Re: Dynapath Delta 40M repair info

    Quote Originally Posted by swhowardno1 View Post
    thank you for the info on how to backup plc and parameters. worked perfectly, now i have 3 copies put away just incase...
    That's good news and your FDD worked after 25+yrs... Those 2 Files PLC/PAR were the only thing between a run-able machine and a boat anchor if, the battery went dead. Now, for the good/bad news that you need to know about IF...you can't find or get from the people you bought the machine from the CNC EXEC software FD's...see below photo is what they look like

    Dynapath Delta 40M repair info-feb2020-008-jpg

    ...the good news is Dynapath is still around and I think for a price (not cheap I'll bet) they can send you the CNC EXE and Options Files
    DynaPath



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