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  1. #21
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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    Well, DJ, you had me excited for a bit... The controls actually have a lot of the same look and feel, so I thought that you might be onto something. However, I am not presented with a question such as what is shown in the manual. I looked through the other settings on my control for something that might mimic the setting, but I couldn't find anything. It appears as though the M3 is, in the end, a little different. I do appreciate the thought though. So close....
    [edit]

    Success! I found the process... duh!

    1. PLC-IF button
    2. Set 1001 in DEVICE() field, Leave DATA() blank, put "M" into MODE()
    3. Press INPUT button
    4. Press the PARAM button and you'll now see the system parameters, et al.

    To change back, cycle the power or put "U" into 1001.

    I'm not totally out of the woods though. I also need the System Parameters, which appear to be accessed separately. And, no... 'S' doesn't work. I tried it.

    Last edited by MrMetric; 03-16-2020 at 01:37 AM.


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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    MrMetric

    Picture of the control in this post? https://www.cnczone.com/forums/dyna-...ml#post2313910



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenssons View Post
    Great news!
    I managed to get the screen up and running.

    I will try to be extra clear if someone else stumbles upon this as I did. To begin with the machine had a blank/black crt screen. The CNC Control came to life when hitting the ON buttonn on the operators control but no screen at all.

    I also would like to give cred to Mr. Caprirs here on the forum who has written guidelines on how to carry out the procedure to re-initialize after battery went low and machine lost its concept.
    In this thread there is a good write up. This one clearly states that you should start from top with the dip-switches and count 1,3 and 5.
    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/mazak...tml#post594116


    What I did was exactly these steps:
    0) Replaced battery (pre-requirement)

    1) Main switch turned off.
    2) On the MC1619 card flip switches 1,3 and 5 to the right.
    (counting from top, I was confused by them being labeled 0-7 and unsure if guidelines referred to the actual count of labeling of dip switch)
    3) Turned main switch on
    4) Hit the green ON button on the control panel
    5) Waited for 30sec
    6) Hit the red OFF button on the control panel
    7) Turned off main switch
    8) Flipped switch 1,3 and 5 back to the left
    9 Tuned on main switch
    10) Hit green ON button
    11) BLAAM Screen comes back to life

    Unsure if the main switch has to be turned on/off. But I felt safer when standing with my nose in the electric cabin.

    Next step would be to try load canned cycles and params. But that will have to wait for some days. Right now I'm just happy to get this far..
    Nice...luv those easy fixes.
    Attached file is a sample Program that may work for testing or you modify per needed.

    Good luck on your new machine adventure.
    DJ

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by machinehop5; 03-16-2020 at 06:49 AM. Reason: added file


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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    Thanks. Right now it feel like a long way to go before I startwith any program.

    Right now I'm working on ordering a rs232 cable. Need also to to dig out an older pc that still has a port for it. Want to avoid buying a new card just for a serial port...



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    I been digging into the machien manual and found some interesting stuff. Earlier I downloaded a file with all parameters from this site. Found it an older thread.
    Now, I have been comparing this to the params in the manual. Haven't gone trough all of them yet but plenty to say they match in most of the cases.
    However, in my manual I found that someone wrote down notes with new numbers. Especially for the y/x-axis data there is change of data.
    Also found that the system blueprint has manually written versions of the servo motors. I'm thinking that eprhaps the servos has been changed at some point and also the params updated to match that?



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenssons View Post
    Thanks. Right now it feel like a long way to go before I start with any program. Right now I'm working on ordering a rs232 cable. Need also to to dig out an older pc that still has a port for it. Want to avoid buying a new card just for a serial port...
    ..more possible options.
    USB FDD (if CNC machine has a FDD) https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...serial+adapter
    RS232 to Bluetooth https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...b+floppy+drive
    RS232 to IP https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...b+floppy+drive
    RS232 to IP Wireless https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...to+IP+wireless

    USB to Serial RS232 adapters is another option...but I heard they are un-reliable



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMetric View Post
    Success! I found the process... duh!

    1. PLC-IF button
    2. Set 1001 in DEVICE() field, Leave DATA() blank, put "M" into MODE()
    3. Press INPUT button
    4. Press the PARAM button and you'll now see the system parameters, et al.

    To change back, cycle the power or put "U" into 1001.

    I'm not totally out of the woods though. I also need the System Parameters, which appear to be accessed separately. And, no... 'S' doesn't work. I tried it.
    Thats good news...great follow-up write up too.
    DJ



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    Quote Originally Posted by machinehop5 View Post
    ..more possible options.
    USB FDD (if CNC machine has a FDD) https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...serial+adapter
    RS232 to Bluetooth https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...b+floppy+drive
    RS232 to IP https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...b+floppy+drive
    RS232 to IP Wireless https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...to+IP+wireless

    USB to Serial RS232 adapters is another option...but I heard they are un-reliable
    ok, so first, there is none floppy drive on this machine.

    IP to rs232 seems good but I would have preferred starting with a usb to 232 cable. But also, as you write there seem to be some prbolems with compability.

    Has anyone succesfully managed to hook a usb to rs232 cable to dyna dm4400m?



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    Yes.... I am using an FDD USB cable. However, I haven't fully vetted it yet. I'm pretty confident it is working, but I want to be 100% sure that I'm not having a buffer overrun.

    This is a very weird time for me... I live in the SF Bay ARea and we are on a mandatory 'shelter in place' order, meaning that we aren't supposed to leave our homes except for good cause. It is similar to Italy but probably not enforced as stringently (although maybe it should be). Anyhow, I have to work during this time, which means that I'm spending lots of time on my computers. Very odd... I don't really like working from home. I am now finding that my day stretches all over the place and I'm not spending as much time in the garage. Plus, it is cold out there right now. Hopefully I'll get back to the machine soon. Technically I work a 9/80 work week, so this Friday I am off. But with my wife here working, I'm not really sure if I'll feel comfortable taking the day off. I may just continue doing my normal day job.

    Two days into a three week stint. I've decided I wouldn't do well in prison. I could stay in my house all weekend and I'd be fine. But tell me I can't leave and.... Suddenly I am a little stir crazy. But I believe in the idea of the shelter in place so I'll adhere to it. I just hope everyone else does and we can nick this covid19 thing.



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMetric View Post
    ......

    I'm not totally out of the woods though. I also need the System Parameters, which appear to be accessed separately. And, no... 'S' doesn't work. I tried it.
    MrMetric what parameter are you looking for, do you have a name of it (PARAM X. Y/Z? or M_PARAM X. Y/Z... etc?)

    I have given the params much time (and love ) since I haven't received a rs232 cable yet.

    What I have done while waiting is to download two machine parameter files from this forum that I found. I then entered both files into a excel sheet. 3rd step, I took my printed dynamyte manual (which has also manually written notes in params) and entered them also in the excel. Comparing these 3 sets of params I found there was very little differences.
    I have stepped through pretty much all them on my machine screen and visually checked how they match after I resetting my machine. Turns out a large % of the params seems to be default values and requires no change. So the actual manual work thumb hammering on the operator panel is less then one can think at first.

    At first my machine started without the Meldas logo being displayed at all and the plc ladder view (F0 button) was just blank. Now both of those work, I have manged to Jog the axles.

    Next up is to manually enter the Tool change macro.

    The progress is slow but it's good learning I think



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    These are specific to setting up a new axis. They're covered in the Dyna manual as the "U" axis, but the screens that need to be modified include System Parameters, the access to which is not covered in the manuals. :-(

    Alan



  12. #32
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMetric View Post
    These are specific to setting up a new axis. They're covered in the Dyna manual as the "U" axis, but the screens that need to be modified include System Parameters, the access to which is not covered in the manuals. :-(

    Alan
    Are you supposed to set them manually? I though those were hardcoded params, Misubishi only. At least thats how I interpeted the manual. I would just assume that the System parms given in the manual is default for a 4th axis. But I just gessing that.



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    The manual shows screenshots that one uses to setup the 4th axis. The first sceenshot is for a mythical S_PARAM setup, for "System Parameters". This is the one that triggers the additional "U" axis screens in the Machine Parameters area (1001 -> M). So, the system parameters are critical but not documented in the manuals at all. Mitsubishi has indicated that they will not give the access to this area out because it is the option area. You need to setup a service call with them. So, the long and the short of it is that the Dyna manual really doesn't give you full and complete information about how one adds a 4th axis.

    Right now I have a different problem. I have been trying out my servo amplifier and it is giving me a 16 fault. I'm familiar with DC servos and the concepts of AC servos. Apparently the Mitsubishi drives require an additional set of pulses on the encoder, U/V/W. These are in addition to the 5000CPR that we all know and love. The UVW is very slow, at 2CPR. Given the naming (the same as the coils) and the slow CPR, it is pretty clear that this is their position feedback that they use to determine when to switch on the IGBTs. Unfortunately for me, error 16 means that all my U/V/W signals are sitting either high or low (possibly both sides of the differential output... not sure and I haven't looked). I got a motor that had the leads lopped off, and I'm guessing that I wired the connector incorrectly. I'm using a Seiki encoder, but it is a different model number that I could not find any information about. Mitsu hasn't responded for additional data on the encoder, although I'm 99% sure that this encoder came with the motor I'm using (an HA33CB-S). I need to work through this one first before I sink more money than I already have into this stuff...



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    Ah, ok. Just so I understand, will Mitsu tell you this info in a call with them? And they arnt willing to give the way of activating the U axis in written?

    And it can't be that the 4th axis parms and m-params becomes accessible after adding all HW?



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    No, they wouldn't give me that information, sadly..... And, no, you need to manually make the changes. It is independent of whether or not the hardware is present. This is pretty old school. CNC manufacturers like Haas still do this stuff though. They really don't want you to add more memory or an ethernet card. It might be a PC based machine, for instance, where a new card is $25, but they want to charge you 2000 for the option change.



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    Hey MrMetric,

    I was entering tool change macro today and found this setting naming the U-axis. See pic attached 2 and 9.

    Have you seen it and do you know what it's for?

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dm 4400M retrofit  - How many parts are reusable?-dm4400muaxis-jpg  


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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    Question about the Tool Change.

    Background -> With my machine came some printed papers mentioning modifications. These are dated 10/21/94.

    Change #3

    Before this change, for the ATC, if there is a tool in the spindle, and the machine is turned off and then turned back on, and a tool change command is given for a different tool number than the tool in the spindle, the machine first unclamps the tool in the spindle causing it to fall on the table, and then proceeds to pic up the new tool....

    ...

    Ater the PLC changes and changes to the software on the ATC board, the machine remembers the last tool in spindle after the power is turned off. also, if a particular tool is in the spindle, and it is called out again, the ATC will ignore it and will go to the next line in the program.

    I would just guess that this machine had this update. Otherwise the printouts wouldn't make sense. IT doesn't mentioning needing a change of the Tool Change Macro but I think I read somewhere here that two versions of the Macro exists?
    Im just trying to make sure I use the correct one if that is the case.



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    Hmmm, I know the screen, but I don't recall seeing U axis there. My *guess* is that it isn't too useful. It is probably there so that you can turn on/off the U axis *if* one had been setup. Stated differently, there is a PLC switch to control whether or not you are using the U axis, but it is a 'dumb' switch. You still need to go through the setup stuff detailed in the manual. Have you seen that? Take a peek at page 42, etc. Those are the screens I'm referring to.



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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMetric View Post
    Hmmm, I know the screen, but I don't recall seeing U axis there. My *guess* is that it isn't too useful. It is probably there so that you can turn on/off the U axis *if* one had been setup. Stated differently, there is a PLC switch to control whether or not you are using the U axis, but it is a 'dumb' switch. You still need to go through the setup stuff detailed in the manual. Have you seen that? Take a peek at page 42, etc. Those are the screens I'm referring to.
    Yes, Ive read the whole 4th axis setup and understand what params you want. This plc switch I found doesn't seem to have any documentation.



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    Default Re: dm 4400M retrofit - How many parts are reusable?

    I got a chance to check my PLC switches, and they are completely different from mine. I have #1 and #8, and that is it. However, I likely have a different control panel from you. #2 through #7 have physical switches that I can switch. I'd love to add a U axis enable, but I'm pretty sure that the PLC is in EPROM. If true, then I can't really modify this stuff.

    Documentation for these switches is in the Dyna Manual (well, for most of them).

    I managed to wire up my axis that I hope to use for the rotary table. I want to test it out to make sure it is working. This was a little tricky to do because the wire I had gotten was cut, and documentation for the connections is surprising difficult to find. However, I finally figure it out. The effort was only moderately successful, however, because my new motor went into *serious* oscillations. I think this is primarily due to the motor not being hooked up to anything, however, so there is no mechanical dampening. I'll have to try it later, but this is kind of a secondary thing for me. I can say that the servo got wicked hot very quickly!

    Jenssons... It seems like you are making progress. I'm curious if you have gotten the axis to home yet. That will be a big step because it will indicate whether or not you have working servo amps, encoders and servos.

    Last edited by MrMetric; 03-28-2020 at 10:48 PM.


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dm 4400M retrofit  - How many parts are reusable?

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dm 4400M retrofit  - How many parts are reusable?