DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup - Page 3

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  1. #41
    Member Sam_Beckham's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    I rewired it with logic routed through my spare (4th axis) contactor. This allowed me to try turning it on whenever I wanted. Twisted all the wires up as well.

    About all I can tell right now is that these drives do not like to have logic power on without motor power. They are okay if I cycle e-stop but if I hit it and let it sit for 30 sec or so, they will come back faulted out. Oak shouldn’t be bringing the enable low during this time so I’m at a loss as to why they behave like this. Another annoyance I have with them is that the reset line won’t clear the over current fault they have when the above conditions are met.

    I decided to give up on making them work they way they should, and just try to get them to work. Wired logic and power through the e-stop contactor. Oak now won’t engage it’s e-stop relay as it is seeing X-Y-Z encoder errors...because the e-stop contactor isn’t engaged and powering them.

    I think there is a way to suppress encoder errors on the Oak. I’m starting to feel like I’m using one workaround after another to get this thing going.



  2. #42
    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Beckham View Post
    I rewired it with logic routed through my spare (4th axis) contactor. This allowed me to try turning it on whenever I wanted. Twisted all the wires up as well.

    About all I can tell right now is that these drives do not like to have logic power on without motor power. They are okay if I cycle e-stop but if I hit it and let it sit for 30 sec or so, they will come back faulted out. Oak shouldn’t be bringing the enable low during this time so I’m at a loss as to why they behave like this. Another annoyance I have with them is that the reset line won’t clear the over current fault they have when the above conditions are met.

    I decided to give up on making them work they way they should, and just try to get them to work. Wired logic and power through the e-stop contactor. Oak now won’t engage it’s e-stop relay as it is seeing X-Y-Z encoder errors...because the e-stop contactor isn’t engaged and powering them.

    I think there is a way to suppress encoder errors on the Oak. I’m starting to feel like I’m using one workaround after another to get this thing going.
    I believe the problem is with the oak or how your wiring circuits are, I have installed dozen's of these drives and have never had any of these problems, I have never used an Oak system, I know others have had problem getting the Oak setup as well, they are a good system once you get it sorted have you had any help from centroid

    Mactec54


  3. #43
    Member Sam_Beckham's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Yes I suppose it very well could be a timing problem with the Oak. I've posted it over in their forums, maybe someone there will chime in.

    I just decided to try it with the logic power bypassing the Oak e-stop relay, but still switched by the e-stop, so that I could at least get the drives outputting encoder signals. I left the power routed through both the contactor and the e-stop relay of the Oak. This does get them up and running. I can clear faults with a combination of the switch and centroid reset command. Seems like a crappy setup though. I hope someone over there will have an idea.

    I may be able to get a logic analyzer on the drive lines in a couple weeks. That might help me understand if there is a timing issue between the Oak and drives (like enable being pulled low while motor power is off). Right now I'm just guessing. I can't think of anything else to try with the wiring side of it right now.

    Last edited by Sam_Beckham; 04-02-2020 at 09:51 PM.


  4. #44
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    I believe the problem is with the oak or how your wiring circuits are, I have installed dozen's of these drives and have never had any of these problems, I have never used an Oak system, I know others have had problem getting the Oak setup as well, they are a good system once you get it sorted have you had any help from centroid
    Have you installed any with analog/torque mode control? I had exactly the same problem, but did not seem to have the problem when configured for step & direction. I need to get one on the bench and really understand a bit more about the logic and settings.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


  5. #45
    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Have you installed any with analog/torque mode control? I had exactly the same problem, but did not seem to have the problem when configured for step & direction. I need to get one on the bench and really understand a bit more about the logic and settings.
    Yes I have Softservo control Soft Servo Systems | Motion Control

    Mactec54


  6. #46
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Yes I have Softservo control Soft Servo Systems | Motion Control
    I was not clear in my question. I was wondering if you have wired up the DMM drives both with the drive logic wired around the drive main contactor (logic power up all the time) and with the drive logic wired through the drive main contactor. Then compared the the drive errors, if any, that occurred when setting for step/direction vs. analog/torque mode.

    My experience has been the same as Sam_Beckman; drive faults on startup when the drive logic is wired so it is powered prior to the drive main power.

    As I said above I need to put a DMM system on the bench and try all possible combinations.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


  7. #47
    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    I was not clear in my question. I was wondering if you have wired up the DMM drives both with the drive logic wired around the drive main contactor (logic power up all the time) and with the drive logic wired through the drive main contactor. Then compared the the drive errors, if any, that occurred when setting for step/direction vs. analog/torque mode.

    My experience has been the same as Sam_Beckman; drive faults on startup when the drive logic is wired so it is powered prior to the drive main power.

    As I said above I need to put a DMM system on the bench and try all possible combinations.
    I have never tried it the way you are using it, because I have never had a drive fault on startup, the way I do it is mostly how it is done in the industry, which you may be doing it in a similar way, I use SSR for switching everything On / Off so when my system powers up Logic even though it is a separate system turns on by a SSD the main drive power turns on at the same time leaving both main Power and logic separate I have always done it this way and never had any problems the same with Yaskawa systems I have installed

    Most Industrial CNC systems are done this way, I have never seen it done any other way

    Have you tried turning on the main power and then the logic and see how it responds, the both should always be a separate circuit

    So if I'm thinking correctly you are doing it in a similar way but not using a separate circuit for the logic which is required if at any time you have to cut the main contactor the Drive should retain logic power

    Mactec54


  8. #48
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    I agree that a zero-crossing turn on is the best. I do that on my mill, but the drive power is 120V single phase. My lathe that has the DMM servos installed is 3 phase and I didn't want to spend the money to buy 3 phase SSRs, so it has normal contactors.

    I have not tried powering up the main then powering up the logic, not sure what that would do. My lathe is currently wired per the DMM manual where the logic is energized at the same time as the main.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


  9. #49
    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    I agree that a zero-crossing turn on is the best. I do that on my mill, but the drive power is 120V single phase. My lathe that has the DMM servos installed is 3 phase and I didn't want to spend the money to buy 3 phase SSRs, so it has normal contactors.

    I have not tried powering up the main then powering up the logic, not sure what that would do. My lathe is currently wired per the DMM manual where the logic is energized at the same time as the main.
    The logic is not 3Ph

    The Dmm manual shows multiple drives wired as I have said

    For a single Drive is attached below I would still isolate the logic with it's own circuit and SSR

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup-dmm-drive-wiring-png  
    Mactec54


  10. #50
    Member Sam_Beckham's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pl9...w?usp=drivesdk

    This is from DMM. It’s not standard wiring practice In a mill for sure. It’s what they recommended to me though. I think I could make it work if I suppress the encoder errors. Otherwise the Oak thinks it’s lost the encoders, faults out and won’t let the contactor engage.



  11. #51
    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Beckham View Post
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pl9...w?usp=drivesdk

    This is from DMM. It’s not standard wiring practice In a mill for sure. It’s what they recommended to me though. I think I could make it work if I suppress the encoder errors. Otherwise the Oak thinks it’s lost the encoders, faults out and won’t let the contactor engage.
    This is the same as what Jim has been doing, the difference that I do is add it as a separate circuit with it's own SSD which turns on when the contactor turn on but is not in the safety circuit so is on all the time until main power is removed very simple

    Mactec54


  12. #52
    Member Sam_Beckham's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Last night I tried it with the power and logic always on and just wired the e-stop input to the control so it could send enable and reset signals. DMM had suggested trying this in our last correspondence. It actually worked okay until I crashed the head into a screw I had left backed out. The resulting error couldn’t be reset by the control without power cycling the logic to the drive.

    It was an interesting experiment I guess but I think I’ll go back to wiring everything through the e-stop. At least I can reset the drives without opening the cabinet.

    Is it normal for a position error to not clear like that? I would have thought the reset signal would have cleared the position error.



  13. #53
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Beckham View Post

    Is it normal for a position error to not clear like that? I would have thought the reset signal would have cleared the position error.
    The manual is a bit ambiguous on this subject. As best as I can tell, to clear a servo fault you must power cycle the drive. I'm still not clear on what the Reset (pin4) does. Again, according to the manual, asserting a Disable signal should clear position errors. But it seems that it really doesn't work that way. This is confusing.

    To reach your original goal of keeping position on all but a complete system power down, the best way is to install linear scales on the table and Z axis. This is what I have done on my machine and I never lose position unless I power down the computer. My preference is 1 micron magnetic scales, I'm using those on 3 machines, but not on my lathe with the DMM drives. On the lathe it's not a big deal to re-home and continue on. On a mill it would be a PITA. Your OAK system does not care where the position data comes from, could be the drive encoders, a rotary encoder on the ballscrew, or a linear encoder on the load.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


  14. #54
    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Beckham View Post
    Last night I tried it with the power and logic always on and just wired the e-stop input to the control so it could send enable and reset signals. DMM had suggested trying this in our last correspondence. It actually worked okay until I crashed the head into a screw I had left backed out. The resulting error couldn’t be reset by the control without power cycling the logic to the drive.

    It was an interesting experiment I guess but I think I’ll go back to wiring everything through the e-stop. At least I can reset the drives without opening the cabinet.

    Is it normal for a position error to not clear like that? I would have thought the reset signal would have cleared the position error.
    To clear a major fault you have to do a total recycle of the main power, that is normal for most controls like this, you should have it all done though, from your main On / Off a the control, normally this never happens when you are running a machine unless you have a major crash and stall out the servo motor

    So if you have to open your cabinet to recycle the power you need to rethink how you have everything wired, as you should not have to do it like that

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    The manual is a bit ambiguous on this subject. As best as I can tell, to clear a servo fault you must power cycle the drive. I'm still not clear on what the Reset (pin4) does. Again, according to the manual, asserting a Disable signal should clear position errors. But it seems that it really doesn't work that way. This is confusing.

    To reach your original goal of keeping position on all but a complete system power down, the best way is to install linear scales on the table and Z axis. This is what I have done on my machine and I never lose position unless I power down the computer. My preference is 1 micron magnetic scales, I'm using those on 3 machines, but not on my lathe with the DMM drives. On the lathe it's not a big deal to re-home and continue on. On a mill it would be a PITA. Your OAK system does not care where the position data comes from, could be the drive encoders, a rotary encoder on the ballscrew, or a linear encoder on the load.
    If he is using Absolute Encoder he is not going to lose position with a full power down they are good for up to 45 min and using the optional battery backup, as long as the battery's are good it will never lose position

    Mactec54


  16. #56
    Member Sam_Beckham's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    To clear a major fault you have to do a total recycle of the main power, that is normal for most controls like this, you should have it all done though, from your main On / Off a the control, normally this never happens when you are running a machine unless you have a major crash and stall out the servo motor

    So if you have to open your cabinet to recycle the power you need to rethink how you have everything wired, as you should not have to do it like that
    I am not intending to have to open the cabinet up when this thing is done. I was just playing around with some different wiring options. The last one was running a jumper to the contactors so everything would stay on, even when I open the e-stop switch.

    I don’t even have an operator panel yet. I’m running a PC on a card table next to the machine while I sort out everything else.



  17. #57
    Member prodiemaker's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    I am having the same problem with my Oak/DMM4 mill only on power up, I am considering a buck/Boost transformer to reduce drive motor voltage to 208 from 230 volt to see if it helps. If I run the drives with 115v the do not fault out. Has anyone tried this set up?



  18. #58
    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Quote Originally Posted by prodiemaker View Post
    I am having the same problem with my Oak/DMM4 mill only on power up, I am considering a buck/Boost transformer to reduce drive motor voltage to 208 from 230 volt to see if it helps. If I run the drives with 115v the do not fault out. Has anyone tried this set up?
    Yes the inrush must be higher than there max, are you using a line reactor or a EMI Power Filter this can help for this problem as well

    Mactec54


  19. #59
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    yes, I have a line reactor, drive rated two stage EMI line filters and snubers on my e-stop contacts. and my voltage is only 228 line to line 114 line to ground.



  20. #60
    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

    Quote Originally Posted by prodiemaker View Post
    yes, I have a line reactor, drive rated two stage EMI line filters and snubers on my e-stop contacts. and my voltage is only 228 line to line 114 line to ground.
    Have you contacted DMM as it seems you have all that is normally required

    Can you turn on the logic first separate, and then turn on the the main this may help

    Mactec54


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DYN4 Overcurrent, but only on initial startup

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