Controller Advice Needed - Page 4


Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 171

Thread: Controller Advice Needed

  1. #61
    Activation process Sray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    66
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    The bob in the image has parallel and USB (not eth).
    The USB is solely for the purpose of supplying the bob with 5v power for the output circuits.
    Or 5v can be supplied into pc (+5v, GND) on the bottom row if no usb available.
    The 12-24v on the right is for powering spindle + analogue + all inputs on the left.

    I could see this bob working fine as a daughterboard with the Mesa 7I98 using IDC26-DB25 cable. Can't see a reason why not.
    Thanks for the added details. The boards in the image were just examples of the Mesa boards and how they connect. I do not know what boards they are or if they are what I am looking for. That's what I need to figure out next.



  2. #62
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    127
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    I've been looking at the 7i76e.

    Mesa 7I76E link

    It supports 5 axis, spindle control, spindle encoder, and 48 io ports, all from the built in BOB. Additionally it has two sockets accepting the cables or additional breakout boards.

    Also have you considered the integrated servo motors from stepper online? I have some coming next week to replace some nema 34 steppers that lose torque at higher rpm (12mh inductance, bought before I knew better) I'll be using 3:1 reduction with a belt drive instead of the existing direct drive of the nema 34's to increase torque as I don't need 3000 rpm. They were $102 ea., including the servo motor and the motor drive. You just supply a power supply and connect directly to your motion controller like the 7i76e above.

    Note, the above with a 3:1 sure reduction would have about 255 oz-in continuous, 500 peak, consistently from 0-1000 rpm with no drop-off in torque with and additional headroom of about 300 rpm with torque drop-off.

    Integrated servos
    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/in...p-from[59]

    Power Supplies
    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/sw...;400,500,1000]

    This combination is relatively simple, not horribly expensive, and should work really well for you with Linux CNC.

    Thanks, John Z

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

    Last edited by JohnZ; 12-03-2021 at 02:15 PM.


  3. #63
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    127
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Apologies, the urls I posted do not appear correctly. I'm posting from my phone while laying in bed recovering from surgery. Controller Advice Needed


    Cool. I was able to edit the urls directly and fix the links in my post above. They should work now.

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk



  4. #64
    Activation process Sray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    66
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    I see no reason why something like this wouldn't work well together from a laptop and Linux.
    To give you 16 outputs, 18 inputs from ucbb bob dedicated for step/dir / limits etc.
    Use 5 axis bob as 12 out 5 in dedicated to run spindle controls- pwm / relays / sensors etc.

    Basically works similar to me unning my UC300eth for uccnc. I can use ANY breakout board with it on it's output based ports.
    With Linux I think you can choose whether a port is in or out based.... Correct?.
    Just so I am understanding how these go together and what their purpose/job is.

    1. So the UCBB (2 cables) and the 5 axis BOB (1 cable) would plug into the 3 plugs on the 7i98?
    2. I am a little confused on why I need all these added boards. Can you clarify the purpose of each?

    I thought/hoped that Mesa would have one ethernet board that goes between LinuxCNC and the stepper drivers and misc sensors/relays. Adding all these boards we are up in the $250-300. That is a lot more than I expected, especially when the motion controller (LinuxCNC) is free. Maybe this is not the most cost effective way to go like I thought.

    Would something like the Mesa 7I96 STEP/IO Step & dir plus I/O daughtercard do what I need?



  5. #65
    Activation process Sray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    66
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnZ View Post
    I've been looking at the 7i76e.

    Mesa 7I76E link

    It supports 5 axis, spindle control, spindle encoder, and 48 io ports, all from the built in BOB. Additionally it has two sockets accepting the cables or additional breakout boards.

    Also have you considered the integrated servo motors from stepper online? I have some coming next week to replace some nema 34 steppers that lose torque at higher rpm (12mh inductance, bought before I knew better) I'll be using 3:1 reduction with a belt drive instead of the existing direct drive of the nema 34's to increase torque as I don't need 3000 rpm. They were $102 ea., including the servo motor and the motor drive. You just supply a power supply and connect directly to your motion controller like the 7i76e above.

    Note, the above with a 3:1 sure reduction would have about 255 oz-in continuous, 500 peak, consistently from 0-1000 rpm with no drop-off in torque with and additional headroom of about 300 rpm with torque drop-off.

    Integrated servos
    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/in...p-from[59]

    Power Supplies
    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/sw...;400,500,1000]

    This combination is relatively simple, not horribly expensive, and should work really well for you with Linux CNC.

    Thanks, John Z

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    Great info John! I will look into these. Sounds like what I am looking for. Was planning on Nema 23s but have recently been considering 34s. I don't want to do belt drive though. I just bought all my 1605 ballscrews so not sure something like that will work with those.



  6. #66
    Activation process Sray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    66
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnZ View Post
    Note, the above with a 3:1 sure reduction would have about 255 oz-in continuous, 500 peak, consistently from 0-1000 rpm with no drop-off in torque with and additional headroom of about 300 rpm with torque drop-off.
    Did you mean you have a 3:1 reduction to ball/lead screws?



  7. #67
    Activation process Sray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    66
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Misread the part about the nema 34s. I thought you were replacing your current 34 steppers with new nema 34 integrated servos.



  8. #68
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1540
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Hi,

    Would something like the Mesa 7I96 STEP/IO Step & dir plus I/O daughtercard do what I need?
    Yes, perfect and for a very reasonable price too. It would seem that you don't require anything else. Note that the Step/Dir outputs are 5V TTL levels which are suitable for the
    majority of stepper driver, whereas most industrial rated servos are 24V. Not a biggy, level translation requires at best a few components, more inconvenient than hard.

    The integrated servos that have been linked in a very reasonably priced, but even the largest, the 180W version, has very modest rated torque of 0.6NM or 85oz.in....are you sure that's enough?
    You might have to use a belt reduction to increase the torque but only at the expense of speed.

    I think you'll get as good, possibly better, performance from the 23 or 24 size steppers which you have already considered, and they could be direct coupled to the ballscrews.

    If you want a genuine step up in performance AND direct coupled then 400W Delta B2 series will do that, but they are a definite step up in price at $390 per kit.

    Depending on the length of the ballscrews its entirely possible that you will encounter ballscrew whip when rotating at high speeds, in which case you may
    not be able to exploit a servos greatest advantage.....speed.

    My new build mill has 32mm diameter, 5mm pitch, C5 ground ballscrews with double nuts and are 700mm long. No danger of ballscrew whip at any reasonable rotation speed.
    I therefore determined that I would use my servos up to their max rpm of 5000rpm (rated 3000rpm) for G0's of 25m/min. The problem is that its TOO fast, and it accelerates at 0.25g (2500mm/s2)
    so the machine, nearly 1000kg, lurches around....so I dial it down!! For most of my work I'm happy with G0's of 10m/min, and I backed the acceleration off a wee bit as well, 0.15g (1500mm/s2,
    You can have too much of a good thing. I'm delighted with what my new machine can do....but its going to take quite sometime before I explore all of it's performance envelope.....it's just plain scary!!

    Craig



  9. #69
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1097
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Sray View Post
    Just so I am understanding how these go together and what their purpose/job is.

    1. So the UCBB (2 cables) and the 5 axis BOB (1 cable) would plug into the 3 plugs on the 7i98?
    2. I am a little confused on why I need all these added boards. Can you clarify the purpose of each?

    I thought/hoped that Mesa would have one ethernet board that goes between LinuxCNC and the stepper drivers and misc sensors/relays. Adding all these boards we are up in the $250-300. That is a lot more than I expected, especially when the motion controller (LinuxCNC) is free. Maybe this is not the most cost effective way to go like I thought.
    Would something like the Mesa 7I96 STEP/IO Step & dir plus I/O daughtercard do what I need?
    I was mainly demonstrating what could be achieved as you gradually build it up.
    The amount of IO avalable can bring options for more axis, ATC, cooling/vacumn/air relays, encoders and so forth.
    Basic 4 axis and spindle may just need the mesa and that cheap 5 axis bob to keep things compact.

    However..... That ucbb board I mentioned has really fast optocouplers that can handle high khz rates.



  10. #70
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1540
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Hi,

    and that cheap 5 axis bob to keep things compact.
    But you don't need the BoB, the specs clearly say the the required buffering, optoisolation and screw terminal are built in. You don't need ANY extras.

    Craig



  11. #71
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    127
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Sray View Post
    Did you mean you have a 3:1 reduction to ball/lead screws?
    Yes. I actually have some 3:1 precision planetary gearheads I'm pulling from a couple of THK linear stages where I need to swap to 5:1 or 10:1 heads. With the 3:1 I'd have over 1500 ipm Rapids on those stages, 5:1 gives 950 ipm, and 10:1 gives 475 ipm. The stages came with 200w Panasonic servos, 3:1 gearheads plus a final belt drive to the 1640 ballscrew. The stages are rated at 3micron repeatability, but I need to reduce their speed while increasing torque. So the 3:1 gearheads are going to my lathe project with the stepper online servos and 2505 ballscrews, while the (6ft long) stages are slated for my next router project.

    I've seen videos where these servos were used on a mill conversion, and as an electronic lead screw on a lathe successfully, so I selected them for my lathe project, especially since they can tuck in under the table next to the ballscrews, and cost less than the upgraded controllers I needed for my 12mh nema 34 motors.

    Along those same line of thought, they should work with your 1605 ballscrews with a 3:1 belt reduction. Just food for thought.

    And, yes, the 7i76e gives you everything you should need for your project giving you an ethernet interface, and connects directly to your motor controllers, spindle control, and 48 io channels that are programmable with LinuxCNC for each channels function.

    Thanks, John Z

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk



  12. #72
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    127
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,



    Yes, perfect and for a very reasonable price too. It would seem that you don't require anything else. Note that the Step/Dir outputs are 5V TTL levels which are suitable for the
    majority of stepper driver, whereas most industrial rated servos are 24V. Not a biggy, level translation requires at best a few components, more inconvenient than hard.

    The integrated servos that have been linked in a very reasonably priced, but even the largest, the 180W version, has very modest rated torque of 0.6NM or 85oz.in....are you sure that's enough?
    You might have to use a belt reduction to increase the torque but only at the expense of speed.

    I think you'll get as good, possibly better, performance from the 23 or 24 size steppers which you have already considered, and they could be direct coupled to the ballscrews.

    If you want a genuine step up in performance AND direct coupled then 400W Delta B2 series will do that, but they are a definite step up in price at $390 per kit.

    Depending on the length of the ballscrews its entirely possible that you will encounter ballscrew whip when rotating at high speeds, in which case you may
    not be able to exploit a servos greatest advantage.....speed.

    My new build mill has 32mm diameter, 5mm pitch, C5 ground ballscrews with double nuts and are 700mm long. No danger of ballscrew whip at any reasonable rotation speed.
    I therefore determined that I would use my servos up to their max rpm of 5000rpm (rated 3000rpm) for G0's of 25m/min. The problem is that its TOO fast, and it accelerates at 0.25g (2500mm/s2)
    so the machine, nearly 1000kg, lurches around....so I dial it down!! For most of my work I'm happy with G0's of 10m/min, and I backed the acceleration off a wee bit as well, 0.15g (1500mm/s2,
    You can have too much of a good thing. I'm delighted with what my new machine can do....but its going to take quite sometime before I explore all of it's performance envelope.....it's just plain scary!!

    Craig
    What servos are you using on your project?

    That speed you mention as shaking your 1000kg machine is why I am going with 3:1 reduction. The little servos, reduction, and 2505 ballscrews, at max speed, it will take about 4 seconds to go full travel (13in)... more than fast enough for a lathe or small mill.

    I also agree that the nema 23's or 24's mentioned above would probably provide similar performance, not need speed reduction, and can be directly connected. I provided the links to the integrated servos as food for thought and an alternative on a budget. I'd recommend 400 or 750w ac servos if the budget allowed.

    Thanks, John Z

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk



  13. #73
    Activation process Sray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    66
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Yes, perfect and for a very reasonable price too. It would seem that you don't require anything else. Note that the Step/Dir outputs are 5V TTL levels which are suitable for the
    majority of stepper driver, whereas most industrial rated servos are 24V. Not a biggy, level translation requires at best a few components, more inconvenient than hard.

    The integrated servos that have been linked in a very reasonably priced, but even the largest, the 180W version, has very modest rated torque of 0.6NM or 85oz.in....are you sure that's enough?
    You might have to use a belt reduction to increase the torque but only at the expense of speed.

    I think you'll get as good, possibly better, performance from the 23 or 24 size steppers which you have already considered, and they could be direct coupled to the ballscrews.
    I mainly meant that the Mesa board John mentioned was what I am looking for (all-in-one). At this point I am still leaning toward the Nema 23s (400oz.in/1.8mH) with the DM860 drivers.



  14. #74
    Activation process Sray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    66
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    I was mainly demonstrating what could be achieved as you gradually build it up.
    The amount of IO avalable can bring options for more axis, ATC, cooling/vacumn/air relays, encoders and so forth.
    Basic 4 axis and spindle may just need the mesa and that cheap 5 axis bob to keep things compact.

    However..... That ucbb board I mentioned has really fast optocouplers that can handle high khz rates.
    And I appreciate you pointing out the upgrade potential. Definitely something I will keep in mind as I start to understand all the additional things I can do down the road.



  15. #75
    Activation process Sray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    66
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnZ View Post
    Along those same line of thought, they should work with your 1605 ballscrews with a 3:1 belt reduction. Just food for thought.

    And, yes, the 7i76e gives you everything you should need for your project giving you an ethernet interface, and connects directly to your motor controllers, spindle control, and 48 io channels that are programmable with LinuxCNC for each channels function.
    I will definitely keep that in mind. Looks like I will probably go with the Mesa 7i76e. It appears to have everything I need with expansion possibilities.

    Thanks



  16. #76
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1540
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Hi JohnZ,

    What servos are you using on your project?
    Three 750W Delta B2 series (160,000 cont per rev encoders), the Z axis with built in electromagnetic brake.

    Using no more than rated torque (2.4Nm cont, 7.1Nm overload) I get 0.27g or 2.7m/s2 acceleration and with max velocity of 25m/min.
    The axis beds are 115kg each, so when calling for max acceleration of the Y axis, which has to carry the entirety of the X axis, including work holding and workpiece,
    say 170kg. Y axis travel is 350mm (14 inch). The time for full travel including acceleration and deceleration is 1.49 seconds!

    The reality is that I don't really need all that acceleration and speed, as I say its scary in operation. High acceleration is paramount for good toolpath following but also
    contributes to the machine lurching around. I've found that 1.5m/2 acceleration gives good toolpath following without undue lurching around.
    I also find about 10m/min adequate, its not like I'm doing production.

    My previous mini-mill had 23 size steppers with really nice low lash 10:1 planetary gearboxes. The thrust was out of this world, over 1500kgf at stall, but the rapids were
    slow, 1200mm/min. Given that the travels were only 180mm x 180mm x 180mm, it didn't matter too much, but was always my intention when I made a bigger machine
    to have faster rapids, ie servos. Servos kick arse!!!

    If OP direct coupled either of the 23 or 24 size steppers he could reasonably expect rapids of 5m/min (1000rpm with a 5mm pitch screw).....and that's quite respectable for a hobby machine.
    1000 rpm should be good on 1605 screws provided they are not much more than 1.2m, otherwise you could expect some whip.

    Craig



  17. #77
    Activation process Sray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    66
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    If OP direct coupled either of the 23 or 24 size steppers he could reasonably expect rapids of 5m/min (1000rpm with a 5mm pitch screw).....and that's quite respectable for a hobby machine.
    1000 rpm should be good on 1605 screws provided they are not much more than 1.2m, otherwise you could expect some whip.
    Can you explain what you mean by "direct coupled"?



  18. #78
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1540
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Hi,
    direct coupled means that the ballscrew is driven by a flex coupler between the stepper shaft and the ballscrew.

    Stepper = 1000rpm then ballscrew =1000rpm.

    Craig



  19. #79
    Activation process Sray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    66
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    So I tried loading LinuxCNC (LIVE USB) on my laptop and ran into a bunch of errors on load. So I may need to weigh my options. If I have to replace the PC in order to run LinuxCNC then I might as well look at some of the other options as well. I would love to eliminate having to use the PC to run the CNC if it were an option and if the cost was the same or less. I am going to see if I can get it loaded, but also look to see what computer hardware I have and what I can pick up cheap.

    I came across the ClearCore Industrial I/O and Motion Controller that I had not heard of that looks like it is pretty nice. And the price is very reasonable. I am not sure if it compares to what we have been talking about or not. Was hoping someone can tell me if it is decent and what exactly would it replace in my setup so far: LinuxCNC ---> Mesa 7i76e ---> Stepper Drives---> Stepper Motors

    It says that it is an Industrial I/O and Motion Controller so would it replace the LinuxCNC as well as the Mesa board? If so, I am trying to understand what software is used and how do I run it? They mention an Arduino library and I see a Raspberry Pi as well as networked PCs in the different diagrams but a little unclear on that. There is a ton of info on their site which is nice. Also they offer a 3 year warranty as well.

    Anyone have any knowledge of this unit?





  20. #80
    Activation process Sray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    66
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Controller Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,
    direct coupled means that the ballscrew is driven by a flex coupler between the stepper shaft and the ballscrew.

    Stepper = 1000rpm then ballscrew =1000rpm.

    Craig
    OK. Duh. I have the couplers for it. I wasn't even thinking of that. I thought it was another expensive fandangled add-on or something. HAHAHA

    Thanks



Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

Controller Advice Needed

Controller Advice Needed

Controller Advice Needed