Is this a good drive choice ?

[SScnc]

I built a small DIY router seen below but it was too small and considered buying a Chinese 4x8 but after much research didn't feel comfortable ordering a $6000+ machine from China !


This one used nema 23's and a G540

My X2 mill also used 23's with Keling drivers.


I have now decided to build a heavy steel 4x8 (4'-2" x 9') with linear rails and rack and pinion drive. I want to use nema 34's on it. 2 motors for Y , 1 for X and a smaller 34 for the Z. I realize I need to get a fourth driver and stepper for Z.

Please tell me if this kit is good to use on this new 4x8 router.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-3x-12N-...QAAOSw-09Z7YCg



I also need to figure out what power supply I'll need to run them ?
And, which breakout board ? USB or parallel port ? I'll buy a new Mach3 if needed for USB.

Thanks for any advice !

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[ledaero]

You can't beat 3-phase closed-loop steppers and drivers from Leadshine. Hardly much different in price from the no-name Chinese ones. Lots of choice in spec.

[SScnc]

Thanks, I looked at Leadshine after your post, what I found was a quite higher price increase.

Unless I hear negatives, I will order the set I linked to along with a 4th driver and motor.

I need to figure out what power supply(s) I need for these. I've also been seeing kits with individual power supplies for each driver/motor set, so in my case if I need to do individual PS's I would need 4 PS's. What is the advantage to using individual power supplies ? I've always just used one PS for all driver/motor sets but this will be the biggest and heaviest machine I've had so far.

[ledaero]

Thanks, I looked at Leadshine after your post, what I found was a quite higher price increase.

Unless I hear negatives, I will order the set I linked to along with a 4th driver and motor.

I need to figure out what power supply(s) I need for these. I've also been seeing kits with individual power supplies for each driver/motor set, so in my case if I need to do individual PS's I would need 4 PS's. What is the advantage to using individual power supplies ? I've always just used one PS for all driver/motor sets but this will be the biggest and heaviest machine I've had so far.

If it’s quite a bit more expensive, the quality of what you are looking at is very suspect, or your supplier is gouging

I’m not interested in building to the lowest price or in spec’ if for someone that does. Good luck to you

[ledaero]

stupid editing caught me out: Fuller explanation:

Thanks, I looked at Leadshine after your post, what I found was a quite higher price increase.


Unless I hear negatives, I will order the set I linked to along with a 4th driver and motor.


I need to figure out what power supply(s) I need for these. I've also been seeing kits with individual power supplies for each driver/motor set, so in my case if I need to do individual PS's I would need 4 PS's. What is the advantage to using individual power supplies ? I've always just used one PS for all driver/motor sets but this will be the biggest and heaviest machine I've had so far.

If it’s quite a bit more expensive, the quality of what you are looking at is very suspect, or your supplier is gouging, or you aren't comparing apples with apples. I suspect multiple of those, concurrently.


The supplier - RATTM in this case has this to say on their website:

We are a global online fashion retail company.


Here is a leading global online wholesale supplier of the latest Products and many more items and gift ideas. Our commitment is to provide a wide range of high quality, trendy fashion products at stunning factory direct prices along with a class-leading customer service experience to our worldwide community of customers.
Our Target is to provide our global customers with high quality products at competitively low factory direct prices.




The more you buy, the more you save! Our website is available in multiple major languages to cater to our continually expanding international customer base. Whether you're a personal buyer in Italy looking for the latest fashion clothing, or a store owner or business wholesaler in the USA searching for suppliers, Here is perfect for you because of our high quality products, low wholesale prices, fast delivery and dedicated professional service – all underpinned by the strength of our global outreach.




Top 4 Reasons to shop with us




- We have one of the world's largest fashion catalogs on trendsetting high quality products and styles.
- New cutting-edge fashion items are sourced and added every single day here.
- Our experienced buyers constantly search for the very latest in stunning fashion clothing satisfy the diverse demand of our massive, global customer base.
- With over 200,000 product lines, we offer a world of style at the lowest possible online prices.

They are a box-mover. You won't get any support, technical help, nada. That isn't to say that the goods they are selling are sub-standard, but in china, prices are very much tied to two things: popularity and quality. You pay more, you get better - but not when buying from online markets. Go direct to manufacturers to see actual prices.


What you have proposed is a Chinese box-shipper that sources the cheapest thing they can, writes some blurb on an ad and tries to sell it for the same price as quality kit. This is how this sort of vendor on Banggood, Aliexpress, eBay works. It's likely drop-shipped, so their entire commitment is to creating an eBay ad and working out how much they can mark up and still get sales.


If your question was "I have already decided to buy this because I like the price. Can someone validate my decision", I'm not the guy for that.


If you really want the answer to 'Please tell me if this kit is good to use on this new 4x8 router?", my answer is 'you have no idea' - there's no brand or manufacturer, minimal specs, no warranty or after-sales support. The numbers are what you would expect to find on a bigger CNC router, but who's to say the figures are accurate? Chinese vendors lie, by omission, deliberately, or just because they have no idea what they're talking about.


If you want a set of closed-loop steppers and drivers, and you can't find Longshine at a decent price, have a look at Stepperonline.com.


That's OMC - they actually make what they're selling. I've bought ~60-70 steppers/drivers off them in the last ten years and had one simple fault - a poor casting that had a mounting hole undrilled, which they replaced without question. They're my go-to for smaller machines - 3D printers, small CNC, laser.


They do a combination 12NM Nema34 closed-loop stepper and driver for ~$120 ex stock in the EU and US. They also include power and programming cable extensions, which the ebay one does not. They also have a lot of technical support, which the eBay one does not.


https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/cl...nd-driver.html


And I assume you know what's involved in commissioning hybrid steppers. If you don't, I question whether you need them. No commercial machine out of china I've used has servos or steppers and they are working fine 10-20 years on. I have hybrid 3-phase steppers on my laser, but then I move it around at 500-600mm/s and need >0.1mm accuracy for some parts. Do you really need that for cutting wood?


As to power: to get the most out of your machine, you need 40-50V. Just buy a couple of 24V switch-mode power supplies in the amperage you need and wire them in series. Buy a bunch, they are cheap and useful. They must be all the same spec - same amperage, same voltage, adjusted as close as possible to the same output (simply done with a digital multimeter). As with steppers you can buy no-name and carry spares, or spend a bit more and get Swan or MeanWell - Swan are 2/3 the price of MeanWell, and I['ve used them for ~20 years without a single failure, however I tend to the side of excessive available amps at low stress for longevity.


Having one psu per motor is usually because the motor power requirements aren't easily met by one supply on 3-4 motors. a 48V PSU is significantly more expensive than the same rated 24V, simply because they sell 100s of times more 24v supplies than 48v ones.


It's easy enough to put a voltage monitor on your PSUs and view in real time using a microcontroller like and Arduino, ESP, R'Pi, etc. and good practice to catch problems before they occur.


Having a hybrid stepper for your Z axis is, in my opinion, an utter waste of money, as well as a cabling hassle. Just get a standard 2-pole stepper. But then, I think hybrid steppers for a woodworking router is a waste of money, as you will never need the speed or accuracy the extra cost affords you. My gantry head on the laser weighs less than 500 grams, in total. The mount alone for my spindle weighs more than that.


You may think you're getting extra accuracy functionality from the hybrid, but you're really not. There's no feedback loop outbound of the driver to the controller to keep everything in sync, like with a servo. I've got them because I wanted 3-phase steppers and that's what Leadshine have in 3-phase. They inherently stay better synced because they're constructed better, powered better and thus, less likely to miss steps. They also offer more torque than a standard stepper, more torque at low speed, which is really the main selling point for something that moves ~50mm sec, at best.


The advantages of the Hybrid Stepper:-

• The length of the step is smaller.
• It has greater torque.
• Provides detent torque with the de-energized windings.
• Higher efficiency at lower speed.
• Lower stepping rate.

Disadvantages of Hybrid Stepper:

• Higher inertia.
• The weight of the motor is more because of the presence of the rotor magnet.
• If the magnetic strength is varied, the performance of the motor is effected.
• The cost of the Hybrid motor is more as compared to the Variable Reluctance Motor.

Unless you already have a commitment to Mach3 and it's extremely dated tech, this would be a time to look at a more up-to-date controller. Something with DSP.

[SScnc]

OK, we were posting at the same time. I'll thoroughly read all you posted.

I had actually looked at Steppersonline but hadn't really heard anything about them. I'll look further into to them.

Thanks very much !

[SScnc]

That is a wealth of great information ! Thank you !!

Based on what you stated, I'll forget about the closed loop and go with standard ones. I don't recall ever having any issues on my mill or smaller router with standard drivers/steppers.

I'm really thinking the Stepperonline is the way to go. Would you look at what I've chosen so far and give me your opinion ? The smaller 34 is for the Z axis.


I put a DSP on my CO2 laser and love it, I'll look for that for the CNC Router.

[ledaero]

That is a wealth of great information ! Thank you !!

Based on what you stated, I'll forget about the closed loop and go with standard ones. I don't recall ever having any issues on my mill or smaller router with standard drivers/steppers.

I'm really thinking the Stepperonline is the way to go. Would you look at what I've chosen so far and give me your opinion ? The smaller 34 is for the Z axis.


I put a DSP on my CO2 laser and love it, I'll look for that for the CNC Router.

That's not enough power supply - look for 480-600W.

2x Meanwell. Either https://www.amazon.com/Meanwell-NDR-.../dp/B0774H8V1C or https://www.amazon.com/MEAN-WELL-SE-...dp/B00DEDB2U2/

If you're building from scratch, a DIN Rail system is worth looking at. For reliability I would put a third 24v PSU purely for your controller, so your CNC movement doesn't cause a power dip.

The DIN rail can carry things like RCDs and such, as well as the power supplies. I always fit an RCD (dunno what they call them in the US - residual current detector. Fast trip if any power goes to earth). Not recommending this unit, specifically, but it's the type I would use: https://new.abb.com/low-voltage/prod...urrent-devices

Being Euro-centric 240V, I use Schneider switches. A decent Schneider RCD runs about US$40-50

[SScnc]

Again, ALL GREAT info !! You've helped me a lot.

I'll check out the higher wattage PSU's. I'll certainly at least have the power input fused. The RCD you refer to makes me think of GFCI breakers here. Those can be too sensitive though, I'll do some research on those too.

I haven't put a CNC electronics system together for probably 10 years, and didn't know Mach3 was getting dated. I'm going to start researching the DSP in the CNC router application, I need to understand how the DSP is able to do auto tool offset on a touchplate, etc, but I'll leave that for another thread if needed. I'll do some searching here on the zone for it also.

As for the power monitor, I program and use microchip PICs, like the one I use to monitor water flow and temperature on my laser with DSP. If flow drops too low or the temp goes too high the low flow red LED flashes and it will shut the laser PSU off. I'll think about adding something as you suggest on the router system. Picture is before I got the flow rate scaled properly...



Thanks again ! I feel I'm on the right track now.

[SScnc]

Is this the way to connect 2 switching PSUs in series ? I've never done this with these type.