Build Thread 4x4 ATC Router Build - Extrusion and Tooling Plate Construction - 10k Budget


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Thread: 4x4 ATC Router Build - Extrusion and Tooling Plate Construction - 10k Budget

  1. #1
    Member BenRogers001's Avatar
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    Default 4x4 ATC Router Build - Extrusion and Tooling Plate Construction - 10k Budget

    Hi All,

    Fusion 360 CAD Files (view or download)
    Cost Breakdown and full Parts List (google spreadsheet)

    I'm planning a CNC router build for 3D carving of wood, V Carve inlay work, some aluminum work, plastics, etc.
    I have a few years of experience with industrial routers (Anderson Stratos) so I want it to be fully featured: Automatic Tool Change, Good dust collection, vacuum table, 0.001" precision, high rigidity and reliability.
    This forum has been incredibly helpful for me so far, so hopefully by giving away the design files and cost breakdown here I can help other people as well.

    Frame: 200x100mm and 100x100mm GFS extrusion from Misumi. I plan on filling the extrusion with epoxy granite to reduce vibration.
    Misumi Extrusion

    The aluminum plate used throughout the build is 1" ATP-5 (similar to MIC-6) tooling plate.

    Spindles I'm looking at are the Jianken 2.5kW or Mechatron 2.2kW, both water cooled. I'm thinking I could just put a 100 gallon water tank on below the table, which would add 850 lbs of weight to the machine. I'm concerned about using ISO20 tool holders, as these are rare and don't support 1/2" tooling, still waiting on quotes from both companies though...
    Mechatron Spindle
    Jianken Spindle

    Linear motion will be 2010 Ballscrews and 25mm Linear Guideways. 2 Ballscrews on the X axis (stationary axis), 1 on Y (gantry), and 1 on Z axis. I plan on using the FK/FF style bearing block rather than the BK/BF style, because it seems like these would have a more sturdy connection to the frame.

    Drive motors will be either 180W JMC servos or their larger 400W versions. These are integrated servos so they don't require additional drivers.
    JMC 400W
    Controller would likely be UCCNC 300ETH-5LPT and UCCNC Control Software

    Things I'm still figuring out and would appreciate any help with:
    1. Does this design seem sufficient and sturdy enough for the things I want to do with it? General critique of the design appreciated.
    2. Deciding between using 1" HDPE or 3/4" Aluminum plate for the table bed. Benefits of HDPE are it's easy to machine and about $350 rather than $1000.
    3. Help with spindle choice. It seems like ISO30 or HSK25 Tool Holders are way more common than ISO25 or ISO20. How big of a concern is this? Should I limit spindle options to only more common tapers?
    4. Help selecting a quality VFD. I know Huangyang is popular but obviously their quality is low. I don't want to be fighting a low quality VFD, does anyone have a recommendation for better quality ones around 2.5kW in the $300 price range?
    5. Help selecting power supply for the motors. The (400W) motors are listed as 6A, 24~50VDC (36V typical value). This isn't my strong suit, any good power supply recommendations that would accommodate these motors?
    Generally do these CNC routers only use 1 large power supply for all drive motors or do they use one for each motor? For some reason I haven't found an answer to this question yet.
    6. Ballscrew technical details! Because I'm using the flanged rather than pillow style blocks, I won't have any adjustment for length of the ballscrew, is this a concern? Let's say there is 1700mm as drawn between the two bearing blocks. With machining on both ends how do I know exactly what size or order the screws at, and if they come in 1mm (or whatever) too long or short will this be a big issue? I've never installed ballscrews before.
    7. Any good vacuum pump suggestions? Have any of you successfully implemented vacuum hold-down and would be willing to share any insights on the best ways to go about it?
    8. Any recommendations for what kind of electrical cabling I should use throughout the build?
    9. Looking at the cost breakdown spreadsheet, for my benefit and anyone else who might want to build this or a similar machine, are there any glaring issues or things I've overlooked?



    The model is parametric, so after downloading the model in Fusion 360 you should be able to adjust the length, width, height, plate thicknesses, etc. using the "change parameters" tool.
    Thank you all for your help!

    Ben

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    Default Re: 4x4 ATC Router Build - Extrusion and Tooling Plate Construction - 10k Budget

    I'm considering the JMC 400W for one of my projects also.

    Currently trying to figure out if it has 4000 counts per rev with quadrature on the 1000 line encoder. I suspect it might.

    With a 10mm lead ballscrew, you are better off with a 2:1 belt driven gear reduction from the servo if you want to get the full potential out of it. Not saying it's necessary.

    That's alot of stuff to read through, I probably missed most of what you said. And I don't know the answers to much of what you asked.

    Check for the ballscrew critical speeds. How fast do you want to go?

    There will be a bit of wiggle room in the free end bearing support for the ballscrew. This also allows it to move a bit from thermal expansion. So a machining error of 1mm shouldn't matter, it will be taken up by the free end.

    About the bed....HDPE is a plastic...plastics can tend to expand alot with changes in temperature. What's the coefficient of thermal expansion on that specific one? Some of the van flooring I used to install would warp and buckle when parked in the sun due to this. The company making the floors switched to a material with a lower thermal expansion because of it.

    The 3/4" plate for the table seems expensive....I would be tempted to say that with enough cross supports underneath, MDF would be fine for what you want to do.

    One large power supply seems like a better choice to me. Not all of your motors are likely to be drawing over current at the same time.



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    Default Re: 4x4 ATC Router Build - Extrusion and Tooling Plate Construction - 10k Budget

    Thanks Nic, I appreciate the response, and I know, sorry for the wall of text.
    I should have mentioned above, but I am try to design in a way that doesn't require any CNC milled parts, only waterjet cut, to reduce cost.
    That's the only reason I avoided using belt driven screws, I couldn't find a way to set them up without needed pocketed parts.
    From what I've read on the forum BST Automation on AliExpress has a good rep, so I'll probably have them produce the ballscrews and rails, as long as they can work with screws over 1500mm in length,



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    Default Re: 4x4 ATC Router Build - Extrusion and Tooling Plate Construction - 10k Budget

    The first CNC machine I made, I had some parts waterjet cut from 1" aluminum plate. Ouch! Did not work out like I wanted. The cuts were not anywhere close to square. I had to fix them all myself. Problem with going for the lowest bidder sometimes.

    My advise is don't rush this, take some time to listen to all options before ordering parts that are not going to become unavailable any time soon.

    Yes, you probably read one of my old posts about BST. They were decent to me. I don't know what the linear rails they sell are like. Haven't bought any of those. Spend some time and look around to see if you can find any deals on Rexroth or NSK or anything made in Japan, Germany, or certified genuine Hiwin, linear rails, even used ones.

    So what's the cutting area on this? What's the critical speed of your screw length and diameter?

    https://www.nookindustries.com/resou...ed-calculator/

    You know, you could make some mounts for the motors driving a belt reducer with things as simple as a drill press, hole saw, a couple of bits, and a file. Not seeing why they couldn't be waterjet cut either.

    But yeah, it might just be easier to direct drive with the servos. FYI, JMC also makes a 440W servo and a 660W servo, both are integrated servos. I'm looking at using the 400W servos inside of some linear modules, direct drive, I know they would perform better with the belt driven gear reduction, but I can't make that fit. So I'm being a bit of a hypocrite. You just won't get the most out of them, and will be limiting them to less than half of their RPM range and power.

    Your design looks decent, clearly you've put alot of thought and work into it....but things can always change as you work through your design and get advice from different sources.

    Your gantry risers are notched at the back, (to save weight?), it's not necessary, it won't matter, IMO, better not to notch them.

    You could also consider a high rail design.



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    Default Re: 4x4 ATC Router Build - Extrusion and Tooling Plate Construction - 10k Budget

    Hi Ben- BST publish a typical drawing with tolerances for machining the screws. Have a look at that and follow. Send a dwg to Fred for comment and he will respond "AOK" or otherwise. As Nic says the cutout in the back of the column is loss of stiffness so add it back. Its a huge task to get your concept to where you have in CAD well done. But makes the build and costing so much easier. HDPE is 4GPa stiffness and Al is 70GPa plus HDPE moves alot depend on relative humidity & temp, that means HDPE is out... Cheers Peter



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    Default Re: 4x4 ATC Router Build - Extrusion and Tooling Plate Construction - 10k Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    HDPE is 4GPa stiffness and Al is 70GPa plus HDPE moves alot depend on relative humidity & temp
    From what I know, HDPE is not affected at all by humidity .... very close to zero.

    It has, however, a relatively high Thermal Expansion Coefficient, about 5 to 10 times more than that of aluminum. HDPE is relatively soft and most softer materials have a higher coefficient.

    You have to keep that in perspective, though. A 12" piece of aluminum will expand/contract roughly 0.00017" per one degree change in Fahrenheit. Only relevant for high precision dimensioning.

    Last edited by davida1234; 08-13-2020 at 10:53 AM.
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4x4 ATC Router Build - Extrusion and Tooling Plate Construction - 10k Budget

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4x4 ATC Router Build - Extrusion and Tooling Plate Construction - 10k Budget