stepper motors get weak with age??

[tkms002]

Having an issue with my machine. It runs 570 in/oz steppers from automationdirect.com and their drivers. After years of cutting my Y axis seems to be missing steps but only when cutting. Do steppers ever get weak with age?
Thanks

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[automationtechinc]

Stepper motors are generally designed for long life and can operate for many years without significant degradation in performance.
But
1: Wear and Tear: Mechanical components within the motor, such as bearings and gears, can wear down with prolonged use, leading to increased friction, reduced efficiency, and eventually a loss in torque.

2: Heat Damage: Stepper motors generate heat during operation. Excessive heat over long periods can damage insulation, leading to a decrease in electrical efficiency and potentially causing coils to short-circuit or open, which directly reduces torque output.

3: Magnet Degradation: Permanent magnets used in stepper motors can degrade over time, especially if the motor is frequently subjected to high temperatures. This degradation can lead to a decrease in magnetic flux, resulting in a lower torque output.

4" Dust and Debris: Accumulation of dust and debris inside the motor can impede its operation, potentially leading to weaker performance. This can affect the electrical components and the mechanical movement.

4: Moisture and Corrosion: Exposure to moisture can lead to corrosion of the motor's components, including the electrical contacts and windings. Corrosion can increase electrical resistance and mechanical friction, both of which can reduce the motor's performance.

5: Electrical Component Aging: Capacitors, resistors, and other electrical components in the drive circuitry can change value over time, affecting the performance and efficiency of the motor control s

The motor is unexpansive, You can replace one if it is getting weak

https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/
https://www.automationtechnologiesin...s-page/nema-23

[peteeng]

Hi TKMS _ Good quality steppers - short answer - No. Since your machine has worked fine for a period I expect your issue is mechanical. Time for a pull down and check everything. Peter

[tkms002]

I can jog the y axis at speeds between 40 and 600 inches per minute and it never glitches. When it is cutting at 40 in/ min I can see the y stepper stutter. I can move the axis manually and can't detect any binding.

[tkms002]

I have also checked the pulleys for their connection to the shafts and all that seems tight. When I say I can see the stepper stutter I mean I have a flag on the back shaft of the stepper and can see the motor itself stutter not just the axis.

[tkms002]

Only last week did the erratic Y axis start. So, I was thinking on it and I realized it started after I installed a new bit from a new set of 5(amazon). So, I swapped out the bit and installed a new one and immediately snapped that one off. So I installed another one and that one I used to cut 5 copies of the pattern that was giving me all the problems with NO ISSUES.
So now I am thinking bad bits and an axis that just cant push them.
Your thoughts?

[metalmayhem]

the 570 motors are capable of a fair amount of force and unless your taking seriously heavy cuts then I doubt the problem is your motor.
I suggest plunging your bit into some scrap at the start point in your program . Run your program in the air a few times then see if the bit still lands at it's start point . If it doesn't then it could be a number of issues, wiring , mechanical , software .
Have you tried reinstalling your software to ensure it hasn't become corrupted ?

[peteeng]

Hi TKMS - what chipload do you run at? If you do not know about feed per tooth (Fz) then you need to look that up. If your Fz is too big then your overloading the tool and hence will choke the tool and create large tool loads (likely to miss steps). Blunt tools are a no-no as well. Seems you maybe near to solving the mystery. Peter

[tkms002]

I am using a .125 compression bit running at 24000 rpm and 40in/min.

[tkms002]

BTW I am using a DOC of .78 with a 20 degree ramp.

[peteeng]

Hi - How many teeth? and what are you cutting? plywood, hard timber? Peter

[tkms002]

Sorry. 2 teeth. Cutting solid poplar and particle board.

[peteeng]

OK - so CL= Feed/ (RPMx No teeth) so 1016/24000/2=0.021mm per bite as the tool moves. That's a very fine cut so your either making lots of dust or if your machine is not rigid enough its rubbing heaps as it deflects more then the chip thickness. Or one tooth rubs while one tooth cuts. Either way no good.

I'd be aiming at 0.1 -0.2mm Fz so 2000/12000/2= 0.08mm 3000/1000/2= 0.15mm getting there. I use 1F tools a lot for this reason. If you used a 1F tool then 12000/2000/1= 0.16mm and your in range... Plus you know that its always cutting with a 1F tool vs one could be rubbing with a 2F tool

You need to be making a nice big chip, as big a chip as the tool gullet will allow. The tool supplier should be able to tell you what Fz is for the tool... This will load the tool the least. Or do trials at 0.05 then 0.1 then 0.15 then 0.2 etc. DOC is a function of the spindle power & machine push capacity, use as deep a DOC as the spindle can cut to maximise tool life... Peter

edit - heres a chart I've found useful

[tkms002]

I may be looking at your math wrong but it appears you are suggesting 118in/min at 1000 rpm?

[peteeng]

If you want to work in inches then its Fz= feed in/min / rpm / N N=no of teeth so a 0.1mm Fz = 0.004in so an example 40in/min/12000/2= 0.0017" so this is too thin a chip... If the chip is too thin then you are trying to push the tool thru the material vs cutting it. This increases the tool load and increases the wear rate. Peter

[tkms002]

I see your math but looking at Amana tool feed and speed chart I see 18000 rpm at 40 inch per min.
See attached.

[peteeng]

Hi TKMS - sorry you're using a compression bit which means the chip is being pushed down the hole so the chip thickness has to be small to stop the bit from choking. So a 1/8" tool from amana says 0.005" = 0.0127mm. 1/4" tool says 0.001" = 0.0254mm

So looking at feeds 40/18000/2= 0.0011" (0.028mm) which agrees with their number. These are small Cl compared to what I would use with upcut or straight bits. I wouldn't use compression cutters. Seems to me they are choking and stalling your machine. Your machine may not be stiff enough to cut such a small CL? Do you have a photo of your machine? Peter

[tkms002]

- - - Updated - - -

not sure why that came in sideways.

[metalmayhem]

a 1/8 cutter shouldn't cause those motors to lose steps , the cutter should snap long before that happens

[RaderSidetrack]

not sure why that came in sideways.

Here it is in the correct orientation. This happens with 'modern' phone/cameras that store images in a somewhat different way than older devices. Nowadays the image is stored however the camera chooses, and the desired rotation is noted in the EXIF data. Viewing devices are expected to use the EXIF data to rotate the image correctly, but older systems (like this forum software) don't know they are supposed to do that.


A free utility like this can fix the issue: https://pinetools.com/rotate-image

More detail: https://sirv.com/help/articles/rotat...to-be-upright/