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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Morning All & Sundry - Todays job was to assemble the Z axis assembly and check it works OK. I'm now not machining the saddle until I understand what's happening a bit better. The Z axis assembles and runs fine so its either the gantry or the saddle bottom face that is the culprit with the tight gantry bearings. Two weeks ago I surveyed the parts and put them into better and rest piles (better is Scoot and rest is YaG). I've assembled the best parts to establish what's what. One part has an overbent flange and the company will remake that for me. Its counter part is near perfect. One thing I have identified is that my prior machines have been made from 1.5 and 2.0mm sheet metal. This has had a certain amount of give that allowed bearings and fits to average out a little. YaG is made from 3mm and 6mm plate and there is no averaging out... so everything has to be a little bit better then prior builds have been. The saddle to gantry tightness is the only issue I can see so that's not bad... saturdays job is to switch YaGs saddle onto Scoots Z assembly to establish the differences then make correction decisions. Nearly have all the bolts in all the holes and pulled up so we must be getting close to running tests!! Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-z-build-1-jpg   Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-z-build-2-jpg  


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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Morning All & Sundry - Todays job was to assemble the Z axis assembly and check it works OK. I'm now not machining the saddle until I understand what's happening a bit better. The Z axis assembles and runs fine so its either the gantry or the saddle bottom face that is the culprit with the tight gantry bearings. Two weeks ago I surveyed the parts and put them into better and rest piles (better is Scoot and rest is YaG). I've assembled the best parts to establish what's what. One part has an overbent flange and the company will remake that for me. Its counter part is near perfect. One thing I have identified is that my prior machines have been made from 1.5 and 2.0mm sheet metal. This has had a certain amount of give that allowed bearings and fits to average out a little. YaG is made from 3mm and 6mm plate and there is no averaging out... so everything has to be a little bit better then prior builds have been. The saddle to gantry tightness is the only issue I can see so that's not bad... saturdays job is to switch YaGs saddle onto Scoots Z assembly to establish the differences then make correction decisions. Nearly have all the bolts in all the holes and pulled up so we must be getting close to running tests!! Peter
    You can't expect any of these bent and fabricated plates, to be suitable to mount linear rails on, without machining, if you have preloaded linear Bearings they won't be preloaded for very long with any kind of binding, because of unmachined surfaces, I did an experiment recently using an aluminum bar 1.5m long, mounted a rail on it with no machining, the bearings moved free, by themselves, so I then mounted a plate on the top of the Linear Bearings and guess what it became unusable because of the inaccurate mounting surface, you could move it but it was binding

    If you where to use Linear Bearings with no Preload then you would have loose and tight spots, this is what I tried also to see what could be possible, but not even this was suitable for any linear Rail system mounted on none machined surfaces, for a machine you want to sell this part of the build has to be right

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Hi Mactec- prototyping is all about finding the limits and then either: a) finding ways to extend those limits or b) backing down from that edge. There's no commercial or fun value for me in going down the conventional path. Learning is good and all input is appreciated. My expectation is that some things won't work initially but I will solve those things and move fwd. I hope all this information is useful to someone building machines eventually.... Peter



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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Hi Mactec- prototyping is all about finding the limits and then either: a) finding ways to extend those limits or b) backing down from that edge. There's no commercial or fun value for me in going down the conventional path. Learning is good and all input is appreciated. My expectation is that some things won't work initially but I will solve those things and move fwd. I hope all this information is useful to someone building machines eventually.... Peter
    Yes I agree learning is good but reinventing the wheel gets old fast, I did these tests just to see how much you can get away with, mounting linear rails on not a perfect surface, and the least was to machine the surface this did not have to be perfect, material like aluminum bar has a flatness from .005" to .012" per foot or .13mm to .3mm per 300mm

    If you can find a piece of aluminum bar that is under .1mm over it's full length then you could use this for linear rail mounting that have Bearings with no preload this seems to work but still not ideal

    For years I have seen every kind of mounting of linear rails, on wood on epoxy aluminum steel shimmed plastic you name it's been done, everyone says there machine works and is the best, the truth is they don't really know because most of these machines are not very accurate, so it does not really matter, if you want to build an accurate machine then every thing needs to be machined and precisely fitted together for a hobby machine cutting wood some plastic and aluminum +/- .1mm is all that most could expect at best and is most likely good enough for most

    The biggest problem I have seen with Linear Rail Mounting is the length of time before they get really loose, from miss alignment or surface mounting problems, there was a post recently asking why did his linear rails wear out so quickly, I replied to the post, the answer is obvious

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Evening All - Todays tasks where: 1) complete the foundation plate connections with button head screws (TICK) 2) start sorting wiring and some terminals (TICK) 3) Swap the two saddles and determine if there is a good/better one. Yes, swapped saddles but no didn't find an acceptable one. The plates are warped in the direction along the rail so they are not bad from rail to rail but if I pulled down the two along the rail I could jam the saddle. So I packed up the saddles and will courier them to the machinist Monday for dressing. That will save me lots of time and possibly a border passage hang-up. The Z axis and X axis are very good.... So while the saddles are at the machinists I'll concentrate on getting the wiring started... No welding in future... Oh the other thing is that one of the gantry parts is overbent and the supplier is making a new one... slowly slowly... Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-wiring-2-jpg   Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-yag-assembly-1-jpg   Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-yag-assembly-2-jpg   Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-wiring-3-jpg  

    Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-gantry-bend-lhs-jpg  


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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Morning all - The saddles are off to the machinist via post for spot facing and tomorrow I start wiring. Today I'm standing more walls for the workshop washroom. Nearly time to get the plumber in to discuss where to run the pipes.... The walls are also shelves on the outside. I got the shelves free from a dress shop that was closing down in town. Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-washroom-1-jpg  


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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Peter, why do you need walls? Looks pretty good already....

    7xCNC.com - CNC info for the minilathe (7x10, 7x12, 7x14, 7x16)


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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Hi Pippin,
    Some of our visitor's may need a modesty wall. Plus the walls do double duty as a shelving system. I'd love to build a stacking station! Maybe in a year or two. Todays job was to box out the window....Next is to sort the toilet corner. Tomorrow is YaG hat day... Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-window-box-1-jpg   Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-window-box-2-jpg  


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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Hi All - I put the YaG hat on today and sorted some of the wiring. Although I don't use cable chains generally and it seems to work without one, I ordered one today to have a play with. I've figured out a wire list and will pick these up this week. I'll also get a small bracket made for the cable end on the gantry ... For motor wires I usually use 4 core speaker cable 18AWG seems to work fine and is flexible and easy to run... Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-wire-jpg  


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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Morning All - I have been asked to design a training 5 axis machine for a company. My thought was to use the YaG design, make the walls higher and add the two axis to the Z axis. Does anyone have a suggestion for the motion controller? I'd prefer to stay with UCCNC as the machine control as I use that. Maybe UC300eth-5LPT ? Would be nice if it had screw terminals... The real machine is a spray painting system for large objects. that will come later....I use mechsoft for CAM and they have a 5 axis version.... but other options for 5 axis CAD would be good. Just started researching all of that. Peter



  11. #391

    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Well going with UCCNC, your options seems limited to their motion controllers. But there are few more options in regards to breakout boards, luckily though.

    Like the UB1 for instance: https://cncroomx.com/en/product/uc300eth-ub1/

    What is the budget for CAM software? my former company had me sit through some presentations from GibbsCAM, EdgeCAM, and Solidworks CAM an Fusion360. I ended up voting for GibbsCAM. But if I had to choose personally for my own shop and needs, I would have gone with EdgeCAM.

    But these are pricey options for CAM solutions, and is meant for professional industries only. Apart from Fusion360 without extensions.



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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    I really like UCCNC, the hardware works well too, plus there is an active support system, a forum, and regular development. I'd use it because once you've sold the machine you don't want constant support questions.



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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Hi Jawz - Budget is what it takes to get it to work? mecsoft have 5 axis for $10,000USD, alphacam is $25kAUD and $5k AUD for the post.

    Zorbit - I've used UCCNC for 4 years and it does what it says it does and its worked out of the box. UCCNC has recommended UC300ETH-5LPT and UCBB so the list is growing. I'm writing a scope for the client to lay out what's possible.... also this has to be framed in that its for spray painting not machining so simpler is better.... no point having all the fun hypermachining tools, just need continuous surface following. Peter



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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Ok well then knowing those budgets I would say they are in the same ball park. I did not get the total of either packages, since it wasn't really my job to handle the economical side of things.
    But I believe GibbsCAM was more around 9.5k USD yearly, package price I do not know, while EdgeCAM was more like 25k USD in initial package payment, yearly I can't recall.
    I can probably ask my former colleagues of the exact prices if you are interested?

    The thing that made EdgeCAM stand out to me, was the fact that it was open, not closed behind pay walls. Buying a kit here and a kit there to extended the software capability.
    A larger initial cost compared to GibbsCAM, but a less cost in the long run with full access and configurable to the end users own desires. Without needing to utilize support that costs x amount of units/hour!
    Oh and they both had CAD built in to their software, which in both cases was very powerful, and not at all hard to learn after a session of an hour or two with a tutor at their disposal.
    EdgeCAM also includes some tutoring sessions for free.



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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Evening all - I have been thinking about the next parts production run and the parts costs. So I laid out a table and found the % costs of each part relative to the total cost. I highlighted costs above 10%. The highest costs where the top plates at 23%. These were big CNCed, anodised and had lots of holes and threads so I expect it to be high cost. The anodizing was 17% of the cost so that can go in future. Anodising does not help it function. I shall include it as a cost up option. The next item is the saddle assm. This was welded and electropolished so again I expect it to be costly. Next time I shall have it machined from aluminium plate so its square, no more welding! ... I am also considering cncing the gantry top plate from thick aluminium so its flatter then the bent steel one. Or I get it done in thicker unbent SS or laminated 3mm gal sheet.... If YaG cuts aluminium OK then I shall migrate some parts to it. I pick up some wire tomorrow and can get YaG wired up to the Z axis. Waiting for the saddles to come back, maybe early next week. The border is now hard closed so they will be couriered back... Maybe look for a machinist this side of the border!! Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-yag-costs-jpg  


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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Morning All - I have been asked to design a training 5 axis machine for a company. My thought was to use the YaG design, make the walls higher and add the two axis to the Z axis. Does anyone have a suggestion for the motion controller? I'd prefer to stay with UCCNC as the machine control as I use that. Maybe UC300eth-5LPT ? Would be nice if it had screw terminals... The real machine is a spray painting system for large objects. that will come later....I use mechsoft for CAM and they have a 5 axis version.... but other options for 5 axis CAD would be good. Just started researching all of that. Peter
    For painting it may be worth looking at a robot design, which would work better than a 5 axis machine router based design, you need it more open with no sides just corner supports if you where to build that type of machine and an over head light weight gantry, so using a simple extruded aluminum frame could work well and easy to put together

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Hi Mactec - The "usual" robotic installations have been looked at, one company quoted $1M AUD the other $2M AUD. Seems a bit of overkill for the application. My current question mark is if the 5 axis CAM can provide a direction vector for the head so it can steer the gun. The spray pattern is directional so needs steering like a knife or welding needs. Mecsoft continuous 5 axis has a line following feature that may work. Waiting on info from them.... I'm off to get some wire...Peter

    something like this as a learner machine then scale up to full size. 20x8x3m....





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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Hi All - Got back with the wire and had an email from Mecsoft...Yes Mecsoft can steer the head along a path so that solves the CAM side of the puzzle. Now to get the machine sorted... amongst all the other things to do... Peter



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    Default Re: Designing a new router called Brevis-HD

    Evening all - Todays job was to wire the slave axis and to install the spindle PS and controller. Did all of this and started looking at how the other wiring was going to work and decided that I needed more room for a new loom run. Plus I didn't like how the PS was mounted. So I built a board that filled the wall side, I'll be able to put the two PS's beside each other making the 240V wiring easier. Takes a couple of attempts to sort out wiring...... Saturday will install the new board and swap all the current stuff to the new board. Will unscrew all the clips and slide it across. Waiting on the saddle parts impatiently.... Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-new-board-1-jpg   Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-spindle-stuff-1-jpg   Designing a new router called Brevis-HD-slave-1-jpg  


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