Reply with QuoteLooks as good as any.
new build in the Pacific Northwest
We are going through making a list of parts for our first build. Is this the proper area to ask questions about our attempt. We are a small cabinet shop, cutting 90% melamine and laminate panels. Thanks, Don
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Re: new build in the Pacific Northwest
Looks as good as any.
Jim Dawson
Sandy, Oregon, USA
Re: new build in the Pacific Northwest
Background, we do commercial cabinets, cut out on a mini max slider and powermatic 66, machine, dowel and screw on a press, jig drawer guides and hinge plates. We do not cut constantly. Our primary use would be to cut out parts, 5mm shelf holes, sometimes 5/8 grooves for inlayed shelf track, groove for 1/4" backs, and drawer parts. It would need a good multizone vacuum table also. One job at a time start to finish, so the saws don't even come on for days at a time. Project sizes, currently a credit union, only about 50 boxes, next in line a dealership 133 boxes, followed up by another dealership 80 boxes. Solid surface tops which they almost always use are outsourced. We use cabinet solutions for design and cut list. It does have a cnc exporter we could use if necessary. As all small shops, we are feast or famine. Right now more feast but famine could come anytime. We have always paid upfront for all equipment except the edgebander which was a lease with a $1 buyout. A 20-25k machine is really outside of our reach. We looked at the CNCRP pro4896 machine and by the time we add what we believe necessary components, it is around 14k. We have looked at a lot of home built machines that are what appears to be about half of that (things like this) https://www.instructables.com/id/DIY...0ft-Rack-and-/. Any thoughts are appreciated, thanks.
Re: new build in the Pacific Northwest
I guess the real question is how valuable is your time? If you have slack times then maybe it is a good idea to build it yourself from scratch. If I were making a living from my CNC router, I'd probably opt for one that was at least a kit on the level of the CNCRP/Avid machine you referenced and maybe even just get a commercial one. The issue isn't entry cost but rather having a machine that I know wouldn't let me down or require constant babying/tinkering. I don't know about others but my first CNC machine was a learning exercise - a lot of learning what I really wanted/needed and what to avoid. Of course the more you build it yourself, the better prepared you are to do regular maintenance and repair.
As to the CNCRP machine, I'm considering the Pro4848 but would just get the basic mechanical package and source all the other stuff as that's where my skills lie. For example their spindle kits are quite a bit more expensive than sourcing the parts yourself off amazon or ebay. You basically pay for a "drop-in" solution. Same with their electronics package. That cuts down on the price a fair amount but does increase the amount of work you have to do, the amount you have to learn and the time it takes to get the machine running. For me. machine rigidity is super important, even for cutting sheet material. The more rigid the machine, the faster you can cut. That's why I would not scrimp on the mechanicals.
Re: new build in the Pacific Northwest
A few random thoughts in no particular order.
You have to ask yourself if you want a machine or a project. The other thing that enters into this is: Do you have the skills & machines to do the metal work and electrical background required to build a CNC machine? I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, these are valid considerations for a commercial application.
A ground up build on a DYI machine is probably at least a 3 month project if you can devote full time to it. Just to put this in perspective, most hobby home builds take over a year to complete, but life does get in the way.
I did a quick Ebay search and there seems to be a number of Chinese machines available at a deep discount, but at best these are a pre-assembled kit that will need some (or a lot of) rework once you get it and the control systems would require a complete retrofit to make it a viable machine. Don't forget to add the tariffs and shipping to the asking price.
Another quick search on Search Tempest turned up a few good Craigslist candidates in the PNW. Buying used is not a bad way to go, but be prepared for some maintenance & repairs and probably a controls retrofit on older machines. There is an older Thermwood in Spokane that I would be particularly interested in if I needed a router. A Thermwood or MultiCam is what I would be looking for in a used machine. Both are solid commercial class machines.
For any realistic commercial work, you are really going to want a tool changer. Changing bits and resetting heights in the middle of a job is a PITA. Manually changing the tool and resetting the height can many times take as long as the actual cut.
Do you have 3 phase power in your shop? If you don't, it's not a show stopper, but can add additional expense for a phase converter, as long as you have enough power in your shop. Many of the larger commercial machines require 3 phase power, but it's possible to get around this limitation.
Last edited by Jim Dawson; 10-06-2019 at 01:55 PM.
Jim Dawson
Sandy, Oregon, USA
Re: new build in the Pacific Northwest
Buy a good used mid level machine from a known brand. Custom machines are hard to sell. One day you will want to sell to either upgrade, or maybe cnc is not for you. The name brand machine will sell much easier. You will probably find you can build cabinets faster with the tools you have, than a cnc router. The good part is you can be doing assembly while the machine cuts the next one. Also don't forget software. Decent cabinet software will cost you your entire machine budget easily. Auto tool changer is almost a necessity for serious cabinet work. That machine is probably out of your budget also. After you read my negative thoughts, I can tell you my cnc machines have paid for themselves many times over building cabinets. It's not for everyone, and you will either upgrade or jump ship. Either way you probably won't stick with a 10 to 15k machine. I have a non atc multicam that I am wrapping up a retrofit with upgrades on. I am in Texas, so it may not be worth the trip. It will be in the 15k range. Similar machines in your area should be available.
Re: new build in the Pacific Northwest
Hi CP93 - In a commercial situation you should do the math and justify a commercial machine for all the reasons so far stated. But to critique the type of machine you have linked to a) in a commercial environment to build a machine from extrusions is quite tricky. It will not be as straight and true as you need. And hobby grade parts are cheap vs commercial grade parts. You will be continually fighting things wearing out if you ebay your parts.... Plus you will need a tool changer. b) He states it costs $3500 usd I'd really check this figure very closely seems a bit shy c) Being a first machine it will not work straight away and will take a long time to shake down. So count on lost time if you intend it to earn on day one and finally in a commercial situation the software is more important than the hardware. You need to research and understand what you need and what is available. Software and the person(s) using it will solve so many of your problems or be a bottleneck, choose carefully. When someone pushes the button you may have 50 wrong parts quick sticks!!
If its a side project then all good, there's nearly an infinite amount of information on this site to help you out! Peter
Re: new build in the Pacific Northwest
I appreciate all of the input. It is consistent with what I thought I was going to hear. I was hoping though for different. We do have 3 phase power. So I will continue the research. I may take a run up to tri cities to look at the thermwood machine as Pasco is just a few hours from here. Sounds like it needs some repairs. Thanks
