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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Plywoods (of this type) have been used for rifle stocks for many years. Often they are dyed green or red, can't recall seeing any in "natural" color. They are far more stable than natural wood and thus you will see them in high-end competitive shooting. This includes anything from pellet guns to high powered rifles. They are slightly less common in recent years due to the popularity of the AR platform and its influence on how rifles should look.

    Chris D



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Hi All -Timber and plywood does change dimension with change of moisture content. Plywood is more stable due to the cross grain structure. Either keep the environment stable or seal the timber so moisture ingress/egress is slowed way down. See attached data sheets. Peter

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    That claims .015% per 1% of moisture content change for baltic birch (finnish birch).
    MDF is .05%, which means it shrinks and grows 3x more than baltic birch.

    Any wood construction should be sealed as well as possible, which will greatly reduce movement.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris D View Post
    Plywoods (of this type) have been used for rifle stocks for many years. Often they are dyed green or red, can't recall seeing any in "natural" color. They are far more stable than natural wood and thus you will see them in high-end competitive shooting. This includes anything from pellet guns to high powered rifles. They are slightly less common in recent years due to the popularity of the AR platform and its influence on how rifles should look.

    Chris D
    It's been a long time since I saw a wood stock used in a serious competitive shooting environment. It's almost exclusively composites or aluminum chassis systems these days.

    Being temperature and humidity stable is just one requirement for a precision stock. Just like with cnc builds, it's mainly about the stiffness so that they can provide consistency from one shot to the next. In that respect, there is no wood that can match carbon fiber or aluminum.

    With that said, my preferred platform is precision pcp air rifles and wood stocks are still favored by a percentage of users but that's mainly for how they look. I do enjoy a nice figured walnut. Even with PCP guns, the precision competition rifles mostly used aluminum.

    BTW, the absolute best wood I have ever used in a stock was Kamagong. A friend brought back an air rifle from the Philippines with a Kamagong stock. It's amazing stuff, I wish you could still get it here.



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    That claims .015% per 1% of moisture content change for baltic birch (finnish birch).
    MDF is .05%, which means it shrinks and grows 3x more than baltic birch.

    Any wood construction should be sealed as well as possible, which will greatly reduce movement.
    i use a sealant on wood but the issues for me usually arise from the moisture that is already in there. The walnut stock blanks I buy can be considered dry enough to use when moisture gets down to 6%. I have never seen any with 0%.

    It's not really an issue on a deer rifle. It's a big deal for me though because I use the stocks as master plugs when making rigid molds (for carbon fiber). If the wood expands, even a little, it either gets stuck in the mold or the mold cracks. Or, I have indexing issues when I make the second mold half.

    I have gotten around thus issue by making resin castings in silicone before making the rigid molds. Now that my cnc machine is up and running though, it would be nice to be able to use wood directly. I am going to order some Baltic Birch this week to try.



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    CNC.bmp
    I built this machine to cut wood, aluminum and mild steel.
    The frame and gantry are steel, the Z axis is mostly MIC6 aluminum.
    The X and Y axis are chain drive and the Z axis is ball screw.
    I use linear ball bearings everywhere.
    I can cut up to 22" x 14" and I hold repeatable tolerances of 0.002"
    This is all custom made and the final tally was just under $4,000.
    All the parts are purchased from eBay, amazon and automation direct.
    I can change the spindle from the mill head (pictured) to a router head.
    My free travel speed is 300 in/min (I've had it up to 600)

    Last edited by atomictow; 06-22-2019 at 02:28 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by atomictow View Post
    Attachment 422704
    I built this machine to cut wood, aluminum and mild steel.
    The frame and gantry are steel, the Z axis is mostly MIC6 aluminum.
    The X and Y axis are chain drive and the Z axis is ball screw.
    I use linear ball bearings everywhere.
    I can cut up to 22" x 14" and I hold repeatable tolerances of 0.002"
    This is all custom made and the final tally was just under $4,000.
    All the parts are purchased from eBay, amazon and automation direct.
    I can change the spindle from the mill head (pictured) to a router head.
    My free travel speed is 300 in/min (I've had it up to 600)
    Can't see the attachment.



  8. #88

    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Very nice machine!

    Quote Originally Posted by atomictow View Post
    CNC.bmp
    I built this machine to cut wood, aluminum and mild steel.
    The frame and gantry are steel, the Z axis is mostly MIC6 aluminum.
    The X and Y axis are chain drive and the Z axis is ball screw.
    I use linear ball bearings everywhere.
    I can cut up to 22" x 14" and I hold repeatable tolerances of 0.002"
    This is all custom made and the final tally was just under $4,000.
    All the parts are purchased from eBay, amazon and automation direct.
    I can change the spindle from the mill head (pictured) to a router head.
    My free travel speed is 300 in/min (I've had it up to 600)




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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Given that you can pick up used Bridgeports starting at $2000 (for a working one), I think it is always worth starting with an honest appraisal of whether you can really make something better than what you could buy for the same cash.

    With a budget of $4000, given the choice, I probably would have gone for a used 9 x 42 Bridgeport ($2000), a cheap (ish) cnc electronics set ($1000 for 3 axis) and used the remaining $1000 for a power drawbar or maybe a used speeder.

    Don't get me wrong, I like what I have built, it was a fun project, I just wish I would have known then what I know now. Making your first cnc machine takes ages and it is certainly not a given that you can make something cheaper that you could buy it for (on the used market).



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    ….Are you saying that a Bridgeport with Acme screws and dovetails and having an R8 head with a quill and belt drive is the way to go?

    Firstly, if the well used Bridgey has any wear on the dovetails that makes it a has been and having a quill with belt drive too...….not my cup of tea.

    For a start the sheer size of it will make most people wilt at the prospect of pulling it apart.

    I think there is a distinct dividing line where hobby work ends and commercial work begins and a Bridgeport retrofit is not a good choice in either case.

    The topic, BTW, is about a router system for close tolerances so a Bridgeport is not in that league at all, it's a mill.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Hello Gaemon - To stabilise wood you can plasticise it with epoxy. Look up the infusion process. If you have a good vacuum pump you place the timber or wood into a vacuum bag pull it down to under the local water saturation pressure, boil off all the water in the wood (takes say 1hr) then introduce infusion epoxy to the end grain (while still in the bag) and it soaks up the epoxy like water hence filling all the pores. You then let it cure and its about twice as dense and won't move on you ever. A little post cure helps. Wood is half air so all the pores that usually carry water carry thin epoxy really well. I have also done this with large blocks of MDF to turn it into tooling board. I've also done it with mdf sawdust to make tooling board. I'm about to make a block of recycled jeans and some carbon fibre into a solid slab for a friend that makes knives for making handles.... Good process. Peter



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Hmmmm...………..without going to all that bother I'd rather just mix up a whole load of fine sawdust and mix it with epoxy then cast it in a wood box mould that's probably more like what a DIY approach would be like.

    At the same time you could make a steel frame work to make it more rigid and add a series of tapped holes, then cast the epoxy mix around it......I doubt that would move even if it was dunked in water.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Hi Ian - If you have a vacuum pump its actually easier then mixing sawdust as you suggest and the result is several orders of magnitude better. Adding steel frames to compensate for warping is counterproductive if the intent is for a tool board. Metal framing just creates lots of internal stress... The easiest path is to buy premade tooling board but generally its expensive and Makers like making. Peter



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    ….Are you saying that a Bridgeport with Acme screws and dovetails and having an R8 head with a quill and belt drive is the way to go?

    Firstly, if the well used Bridgey has any wear on the dovetails that makes it a has been and having a quill with belt drive too...….not my cup of tea.

    For a start the sheer size of it will make most people wilt at the prospect of pulling it apart.

    I think there is a distinct dividing line where hobby work ends and commercial work begins and a Bridgeport retrofit is not a good choice in either case.

    The topic, BTW, is about a router system for close tolerances so a Bridgeport is not in that league at all, it's a mill.
    Ian.
    It obviously depends on what you plan to cut and how much travel you need.

    My point was that, whatever your needs, it is worth checking to see what used machinery you can find for the same money before going the diy route. Most people here are simply not capable of building a diy machine base that can match the precision of used industrial kit.

    Obviously, if you need 12 feet of X axis travel then you'd look for a used router instead of a mill. There is no need to get hung up on the distinction if you are doing a retro-fit project though. Once you have acquired a sturdy and precise machine base, you can just install the right type of spindle and motors for the type of work.

    In terms of size and bulk, I am not sure there is any line between hobby and work machines. I have seen some enormous diy cnc routers here. A 9 x 42 Bridgeport is certainly chunky but not that different to a medium size cnc router in terms of footprint.



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Hello Gaemon - To stabilise wood you can plasticise it with epoxy. Look up the infusion process. If you have a good vacuum pump you place the timber or wood into a vacuum bag pull it down to under the local water saturation pressure, boil off all the water in the wood (takes say 1hr) then introduce infusion epoxy to the end grain (while still in the bag) and it soaks up the epoxy like water hence filling all the pores. You then let it cure and its about twice as dense and won't move on you ever. A little post cure helps. Wood is half air so all the pores that usually carry water carry thin epoxy really well. I have also done this with large blocks of MDF to turn it into tooling board. I've also done it with mdf sawdust to make tooling board. I'm about to make a block of recycled jeans and some carbon fibre into a solid slab for a friend that makes knives for making handles.... Good process. Peter

    That all sounds like more hassle and money than it is worth. If I am going to add epoxy to something, It would be better to add it to carbon fiber or fiberglass.

    Unless the layer of epoxy is very thick (like as thick as the wood) I doubt you achieve a satisfactory increase in stiffness anyway. I've seen wood expand or bow and break epoxy shells a number of times. 1\4" of epoxy spread over a medium to large area would snap like a twig with mild pressure.

    Sand and gravel is a far better filler for epoxy than sawdust BTW. Home Depot sells 50lb bags of sand and gravel for around $5.



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Hi Gaemon - The idea is to make something you can machine. For instance your stocks or moulds. It's not to increases stiffness its to make it stable. Effectively its tooling board. Have you seen or used tooling board? Peter

    Tooling Boards – Meury Enterprises



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Most people here are simply not capable of building a diy machine base that can match the precision of used industrial kit.
    Those same people are also not capable of converting an old warn out bridgeport to CNC. Unless you know what you're looking for, and what you're doing, buying a used machine is not a trivial task.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    I would think a Bridgey was the last place you would start if you wanted a router with high specs, certainly not if you have an 8 X 12 foot sheet of plywood in mind.

    At the same time, just getting a DIY build of quite large proportions level and square would be beyond even a fairly well equipped workshop...…..the problem being that as the temperature fluctuates then so does your machine...….also what could a DIY person use to ensure that it meets very high accuracy once it's assembled.

    The main point is who in his right mind would expect a large router to perform like a small router when it comes to accuracy over large dimensions...….just getting the frame work square to accept linear rails is well beyond the average DIY home workshop person.

    For the answer to this topic I think you must tailor your needs to your ability to achieve...…...anything lacking in the making department and you get just an average DIY build that could cut materials of various consistencies but how accurate is an unknown factor on the path to the initial creativity.

    First you have to have an accurate machine and the cost of accuracy is an exponential curve once you raise your specs...….high end spindles and tooling do not make a machine, they compliment it.

    I think the first step is to propose a design so that a tangible feel can be got.....castles in the air are two a penny.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Those same people are also not capable of converting an old warn out bridgeport to CNC. Unless you know what you're looking for, and what you're doing, buying a used machine is not a trivial task.

    Whatever cnc project you take on for the first time, there is certainly a long learning curve. I agree that retro-fitting older machines has it's own difficulties. But, hooking up stepper motors, motion controllers and wiring electronics are challenges that can be overcome with research, patience and a little help from the forum. Building a precision machine base in your basement with nothing but a drill press is something else entirely.

    I literally could not buy the iron for a diy project for the same cash as a used Industrial machine and creating precision flat rail mounting surfaces, if you don't already own a mill, is a hill many diy projects die on.

    The way I see it, there is nothing wrong with giving yourself a head start where ready made used parts cost the same or less than a full diy option. You can spend months trying to figure out how to make a strong and stiff gantry with precision flat and parallel rail mounting surfaces, or snap up a sweet piece like this:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tru-Stone-1...QAAOSwD~Fb5lUL

    It has precision flat surfaces, pre-drilled mounting holes and a ready cut groove so you can mount a ball screw on the back (protected from chips and sawdust). I just wish I would have seen something like before I started my project...

    You could spend months trying to teach yourself to make a base with a harbor freight welder, or... snag one of the many precision bases being thrown away for pennies on the dollar:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Newport-Dyn...4AAOSw0T9c1bs4



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    Default Re: How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Hi Gaemon - The idea is to make something you can machine. For instance your stocks or moulds. It's not to increases stiffness its to make it stable. Effectively its tooling board. Have you seen or used tooling board? Peter

    Tooling Boards – Meury Enterprises

    "Tooling board" means different things depending on your industry. In my world, a tooling board is a large slab of plastic or hard wax intended for cnc machining master plugs or molds. I can't see any relevance to this thread though.

    Tool steel is pre-hardened steel intended for making knives and tools.

    Aluminum tooling plate (like mic6 ) is a usually untempered alloy sold as blank stock for machining. I have tons of it here.

    I'm not sure how any of that relates to building a cnc machine that maintains cutting tolerances. What are you asking?



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How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerances?

How is everyone building a DIY CNC router system that maintains cutting tolerances?