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Thread: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

  1. #25
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    Default Re: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

    I think CAMaster has it pretty well figured out by now, after how many years?

    Last edited by wmgeorge; 04-25-2019 at 09:48 PM.


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    Default Re: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    I think CAMaster has it pretty well figured out by now, after how many years?

    Bill,

    You seem to really like the Camaster CNCs; you often speak well of them. Are you thinking about selling you Saturn 2 and dropping the big bucks for a CAMaster?


    Could I ask a favor? Would you mind measuring the bracket thingy for me on your Saturn 2? It's the bracket for the rack & pinion drive that used with the tensioning bolt. Fineline calls it the "Spring Mount Plate." Here's a picture of it:

    GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design-untitled-jpg


    I still have the bracket from my old machine, but it was designed to fasten to a larger flat surface than the mounting plate affords. I suspect that is why Fine Line made the change. The original bracket came from CNCRP. Here's a picture of it:

    GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design-spring-mount-bracket-jpg


    I suppose I could accommodate the old support by adding a piece of flat metal behind where the bracket attaches to the interface plate, but that would look pretty mickey mouse. I'd rather something more like Fine Line uses. And yes, I suppose I could buy the bracket from Fine Line, but already poor service appears to be deteriorating even further. Since I'm already fabricating stuff anyway, a few more pieces won't be a big deal.

    Gary



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design-spring-mount-bracket-jpg   GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design-untitled-jpg  


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    Default Re: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

    For anyone who hasn't used a manual mill before, manual milling sucks. Yes, you can get remarkable accuracy and make some really functional and nice looking parts. However, with a bench top mill like I have, you are forever problem solving, e.g., figuring out how to do things on a small mill that would be straightforward on a full sized, or even a somewhat larger mill. Then, there is the question of how long it takes to mill stuff. Okay, I'm just a self-taught, hobby guy who happens to have a mill and can make stuff with it. I'm by no means a machinist. So, anything I do is bound to take way longer than someone with real skills. Still, most things seem to take forever.

    The mounting/interface plates I'm currently working on involve facing, cutting slots, counter boring, drilling 3 sized holes, and threading. In case you may be wondering, I got bids for the having the plates made. The 4 pieces I wanted cut would cost about the same as my mill. Too rich for my blood.

    One other thing. For the untrained, like me, a DRO is absolutely essential. No way I could make these plates without it.

    Photos of the plates to follow in a few days.

    Gary




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    Default Re: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

    So you want the measurements of the black bracket? No plans to sell my Saturn 2 as its working great, but in the long run maybe I would have been better off with spending the the $14-15 K for the CAMaster?

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP


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    Default Re: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    So you want the measurements of the black bracket?


    Yes, please.




    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    No plans to sell my Saturn 2 as its working great, but in the long run maybe I would have been better off with spending the the $14-15 K for the CAMaster?
    Only you can answer that question. You got one of the good Saturns, so what would you really gain with the CAMaster? Customer service, if you needed it. A proven machine? Yes. You just have to work out the cost vs. benefit. For the first timer, the customer service aspect alone may be worth the extra cost. In my situation, while I could afford a CAMaster, I was not, and am not, willing to part with that much extra cash. I wasn't willing to part with the extra $$ for the CNCRP PNP electronics either. Fortunately, I'm pretty handy, have an eye for detail and was willing to put in the time researching, designing, sourcing and building. Would I rather spend my time cutting? Sure. However, it's all part of the cost vs. benefit analysis we all go through (to a greater or lesser extent) when we decide to enter the world of CNC.

    Gary




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    Default Re: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

    I would gain nothing in performance over the Saturn 2 with the CAMaster but it would be ready to go out of the crate when I got it. The Saturn 2 was more like a partly assembled kit. The CNCRP prewired control box and motors worked without tinkering. They have a well thought out system and it works, thousands of customers build their CNC routers and use without any issues. I would rather be cutting and engraving vs running a machine shop building parts. I have done my share of building things.

    It was my understanding that FLA used all CNCRP accessories?


    Its also been my experience in the past, homemade or shop built has little or no resale value.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP


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    Default Re: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post

    It was my understanding that FLA used all CNCRP accessories?

    I think mostly true. The gantry interface plate on the Saturn 2 is definitely not CNCRP. Also, I believe Fineline either made up new R & P drives, or made major modifications to CNCRP's. That bracket I asked about is also all Fine Line. The silver one from my original machine was CNCRP. Seems like the Saturn series brought about a departure from using CNCRP stuff.


    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post

    Its also been my experience in the past, homemade or shop built has little or no resale value.

    Probably true. I didn't undertake this build with an eye toward resale downstream. If, at the end of the day, it turns out like I hope, I plan to keep it until I'm too old or frail to run it. At that point, I will have gotten my moneys worth.

    In the unlikely event I change my mind and want to dispose of it, I can either get a reasonable price for it, or repurpose the 80/20. I've already repurposed some of the 80/20 from my first CNC. Also, 80/20 may have more value in individual pieces than as part of an assembly. 80/20 is expensive stuff.

    Gary




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    Default Re: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    So you want the measurements of the black bracket? No plans to sell my Saturn 2 as its working great, but in the long run maybe I would have been better off with spending the the $14-15 K for the CAMaster?
    Its a sketch not a drawing, sorry. Bracket is bolted to the bearing mount plate. The metal is .250 thick and it seems to be Imperial or inch dimensions. Hole size, sorry I did not remove any bolts....

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design-img_4048-jpg   GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design-img_4049-jpg  
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP


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    Default Re: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Its a sketch not a drawing, sorry. Bracket is bolted to the bearing mount plate. The metal is .250 thick and it seems to be Imperial or inch dimensions. Hole size, sorry I did not remove any bolts....

    Thank you, Bill. Just what I needed. Bolt size, where it attaches to the mount, can be anything I want it to be. The old mount used a 3/8" bolt. I'll stick with that.

    Thanks again,

    Gary



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    Default Re: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

    Do you have the gantry plates done yet? Did you think about using gear boxes instead of the pulley reduction? I wonder how durable the drives are that we have. Just curious since you're building it from scratch.

    Dan



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    Default Re: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

    This is great reading thank you Gary - I almost pulled the trigger on the FLA Saturn some time ago, but the stories of warped frames and quality issues scared me off..

    Your design is quite similar to what I have been drawing up, I took a lot of inspiration from the CNCRP machines - unfortunately in Australia postage is about 30% of the cost of the machine...

    Thanks for sharing!



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    Default Re: GME's New 80/20 CNC Build - My Design

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntl View Post
    Do you have the gantry plates done yet?
    Dan
    Nope. Still cutting them. It's slow, slow, slow going.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntl View Post
    Did you think about using gear boxes instead of the pulley reduction? I wonder how durable the drives are that we have. Just curious since you're building it from scratch.
    I thought about it, but it was too costly - at least for now. At Automation direct, gear boxes for NEMA 34s start at $360 each. That's over a Grand for what may or may not be a net overall gain. They start at a 5:1 ration, which would give me a higher resolution, but I'm not sure that would net out as a gain. I'd also have to design new a completely new mounting system, which I don't want to get into right now. Maybe later. I already have the racks and R&P drives from my first machine. They worked well. Lots of use with no discernible wear. The CNCRP machines, both standard and pro, have used them for years. Folks seem happy with them. My current machine is built to much tighter tolerances than my first. I expect to have maximum life out of the pulley system - whatever that turns out to be.

    What kind of life you can expect from your machine is an open question. But then, without fixing the underlying problems, I predict that any type of drive system will wear prematurely.

    Gary



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