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  1. #25
    Member Ntl's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Part To Start ?

    How much is that tubing like $75 a foot?



  2. #26
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    Default Re: What Part To Start ?

    14 x 10 x 3/8 = 58lbs. per LF @ $62 per LF

    14 x 10 x 5/16 = 49lbs. per LF @ $43 per LF



  3. #27
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    Default Re: What Part To Start ?

    Jake, I do not have any idea of what to use for your frame. I will not BS you like some folks on here. When I built my 3 point backhoe as a beginning retirement project two issues became apparent. First how to handle the heavy steel and that was solved by using my over head rail and hoist. The other was building on the garage floor. The concrete was not poured or finished to +/- .005 inch as I am sure yours is. So I needed to do a lot of leveling and propping and shimming when I was welding. I have converted old milling machines to CNC and done enough to know I did Not want to build a control system. Even as I am a pretty qualified electrician who has been doing industrial and control work most of my life. I just wanted something to work and no messing around. I make money on the side and I decided I would rather do that, then build. Money is not a big deal and If I want something , I just buy it.

    Last edited by wmgeorge; 04-04-2019 at 08:19 PM.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4


  4. #28
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    Default Re: What Part To Start ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeInCharlotte View Post
    14 x 10 x 3/8 = 58lbs. per LF @ $62 per LF

    14 x 10 x 5/16 = 49lbs. per LF @ $43 per LF
    That's what I figured that stuff is expensive. Have you looked at possibly using more of a off the shelf tubing and using steel plate to enclose it? Might save you some money and you can have it come from the mill cut to size. Just a option if you're still finalizing the design. That way the tubing for the frame will be easier to handle and cut to size.

    Dan



  5. #29
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Part To Start ?

    The drive system is the biggest part I don't know about. Servos with gear reduction sound great, but I have zero clue(right now) how to size them.
    Most servo manufacturers have sizing programs. But you need to know how fast you want to move, and how fast you want to accelerate.

    If you are building that big and heavy, you'll probably be in the 1.5-2Kw range.

    Gerry

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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  6. #30
    Activation process peteeng's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Part To Start ?

    Hi Jake - I think your overcooking the frame for cabinetry work. With your cabinetry background I'd build a timber machine as your starter or at least a timber bench. I'd use linear bearings however not the extrusions and wheels on lots of these. Peter

    https://www.buildyourcnc.com/CNCMachineKits.aspx



  7. #31
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Part To Start ?

    BuildyourCNC is the worst machine you could build.

    If you want to cut cabinets fast, and accurate, you do indeed want a machine like that.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  8. #32
    Activation process peteeng's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Part To Start ?

    I think that's debatable. If you want a heavy bench bolt it to the earth then it weighs what the earth weighs. Is that heavy enough? It's a matter of having enough stiffness in the right spots irrespective of weight. Unfortunately this is not an easy task to do so most people just chuck large heavy chunks of steel at it and it's done. I'm in the lightweight arena and that's it, so the answer lies somewhere in the middle. I put up alternatives, I'm in here looking for ideas and opportunities. To me there's no opportunity in the heavy is best camp.

    Jakes utility description doesn't sound like he needs a high production machine churning out kitchens every two shifts 50 weeks a year. But I think Jake will build what he builds and do a good job. I think people start this thing because they think they can build it cheaper than the production guys can. That's what I did... Turns out you can and you can't. If you need a machine to do a job you can usually find a second hand one to get you going. Quicker and cheaper in the long run verses developing your own machine even if you have to sort a few things. If your in business and have the need, lease one you'll be streets ahead. If you develop your own machine you have to sort a lot of things... I also have the Australian perspective and it seems a lot of things are very much cheaper in the USA than over here. That may change the build economics somewhat. It's a long journey Jake , enjoy the build and the forum, I am.

    PS will a $20k USD shopbot get the job done? Its bench is less substantial then Jakes design but I'm sure it will make his cabinets??? So can you build this shopbot for $10k in your basement?? Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What Part To Start ?-shopbot-jpg  
    Last edited by peteeng; 04-05-2019 at 12:08 AM.


  9. #33
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Part To Start ?

    Anything will "do the job". The question is what does he want?

    I know of many former shopbot users who switched to Camaster and found the switch to be a huge improvement.

    Something with a frame comparable to what Jake is showing would get into the $80K-$100K range, depending on options.

    When you get into big, heavy machines, everything is much more expensive. Motors, drives, motion components, will all cost much more than what you'd find on a Shopbot.

    Yes, you can build one yourself for much cheaper, but it will take a considerable amount of time. And the bigger, stronger, and faster the machine will be, the longer it will take to build.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  10. #34
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Part To Start ?

    Fusion is a lot of fun. NOT!!! I have spent last few nights studying how the big manufacture's build their machines looking for inspiration. I really like the Onsrud machine base for its simplicity. Their designs seem to have changed from side mount linear slides to top mount. They also are building a triangle foot base now instead of the standard rectangle tube they used before. The triangle seems like a lot more welding to me so I will stick with the rectangle. I am shooting for a 34" table to to floor design with 10" of gantry clearance.

    It's by no means done, but I thought I would post it now and get some feedback.

    Do you plan on getting this stress relieved and machined after welding? I think that would be critical to getting the most out of this frame.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  11. #35
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    Default Re: What Part To Start ?

    Or he could do what Gary Campbell does (at times) buy a decent Chinese machine with a good heavy frame and then tear out the control system and anything else he deems not worthy and rebuild it with either a WinCNC or Acorn control system and do whatever is needed to make the machine right. If thats to difficult or you don't know how, then you have no business trying to build your own.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4


  12. #36
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    Default Re: What Part To Start ?

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    It's a matter of having enough stiffness in the right spots irrespective of weight. Unfortunately this is not an easy task to do so most people just chuck large heavy chunks of steel at it and it's done. I'm in the lightweight arena and that's it, so the answer lies somewhere in the middle. I put up alternatives, I'm in here looking for ideas and opportunities. To me there's no opportunity in the heavy is best camp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntl View Post
    Have you looked at possibly using more of a off the shelf tubing and using steel plate to enclose it?
    My frame design has changed as I have dug in deeper. The one I posted earlier seem great to me, but I saw a lot of welding. To me that equals heat, shrinkage, and distortion. I started searching pictures of high end machines and found their bases to be a simpler design using big rectangle tube. The big tube will require less welding for sure. The part that got me was the fact that the table heights are around 34" from the floor to spoil board, and that needs tall tube. I'm sure I could build something out of smaller material, but Im not looking to reinvent the wheel. I have been buying steel from Howard Steel in Charlotte for years and I find their prices to be pretty competitive. They seem to charge based on weight, well sort of. The frame will be close to 3000lbs as designed.


    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Do you plan on getting this stress relieved and machined after welding?
    Yes and yes. Not sure where at the current time. I'm following the table flatness thread and bookmarked Precision Grinding Inc. in Alabama. They are only 6 hours away from me. Otherwise I plan to use the cedar shim scraps my trim guys leave everywhere.


    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    buy a decent Chinese machine with a good heavy frame and then tear out the control system.
    Thought about it. I even tried to buy just a frame. I just could not find anyone interested in a frame only sale.

    Im looking at the Acorn system for sure. I like the fact it is from a company that builds bigger systems. Has Centroid always been a supporter of open source DIY systems? If so, I think it's pretty cool.



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