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  1. #49
    Member Ntl's Avatar
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    Default Re: CNC ROUTER TABLE FLATNESS

    I don't understand the question then. The rail mounting method is easy to find from the manufacturer of the rails you are using. As for the tolerance, you would need the shop to show you when you pick it up that they meet your specs. If it doesn't and you supplied the shop with drawings, then you have them fix it or don't pay.

    With your last question, I think you may want to just buy a premade router from a reputable company. You might be getting into to big of a project for the tools you have. You more than likely will find it's more cost effective to just buy one anyway unless you have a big budget and are doing it for fun. You need to decide if you want the machine to be your project or the parts you cut with the machine. I've seen guys on here with router's they started building 15years ago that still aren't cutting anything.

    Just my opinion don't take any offense by it.

    Dan



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    Default Re: CNC ROUTER TABLE FLATNESS

    What Dan said above /\ . What is the intended purpose of your router? Is if for wood, if so you need to understand what you mill or rout today can and will change the next time the temperature or humidity changes. If your not understanding that then you need to forget a CNC wood router.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP


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    Default Re: CNC ROUTER TABLE FLATNESS

    Quote Originally Posted by hughes674 View Post
    Ok

    Having had a few days to digest all the advice given it appears that there are only a couple of people that have actually read the original question. I am fully aware that having the frame machined is the best solution but this doesn't illuminate other potential issues that have been pointed out. Eg (Stress relief, Competence of machinist. ETC). It would be easy just to get the table heat treated then ground but unless there is a means of checking the end result we are back to the original question and we haven't got a clue exactly what tolerance our machine bed is. The point of finding a method to mount rails precisely would illuminate this and take away any guess work of exactly how accurate our machines are.
    If having the bed and rail mounts ground is the only way, how do we check the accuracy of the work carried out costing $000,s. Or do we just say it's accurate to 0.05mm because the guy that ground it said it was.

    Cheers
    Mick
    Most of the large machine shops that do this work can check the surface on the machine, as for stress reliving these same shops do that before the machining, any machinist that runs a big machine like this is competent, machine beds are normally with in .0005" or better

    It is easy to check how the surfaces are using test indicators, if you have a shoulder machined for the Linear rail register you can then mount a rail and with ( 1 ) bearing carriage mounted on the rail with the indicator mounted run it along the whole axes checking the machined surface, most I have seen are within .001" in 12 feet if that is not good enough then you would have to hand scrape the surface

    Mactec54


  4. #52
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    Default Re: CNC ROUTER TABLE FLATNESS

    wmgeorge, Thanks for sharing video. I will share my product which is made by routertable. and jono5axe, Thanks for this information. What was the actual cost? Can you share the numbers?



  5. #53
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    Default Re: CNC ROUTER TABLE FLATNESS

    I wrestled with this for a while but mainly because I either wasn't capable (or could not afford) to follow the best advice for achieving the hyper precision that people were talking about. In the end, I found that the best option I could afford was to mount my rails on used NSK and THK actuator bases.

    I just bought a bunch of used actuators and replaced the old worn out 25mm rails with the ones I bought for the job. I figured that there was no way I would ever achieve comparable flatness, squareness or parallelism to what those NSK guys can do. With a little patience, they can be found for very little money (even super long ones).

    I now have precision actuators with 25mm square rails and ground C3 ball screws on all axis. And... most premade actuator bases come with pre-drilled and threaded mounting holes which is a huge time and error saver.

    For the machine base and gantry face, I used (and had good results with) epoxy leveling. I use epoxy every day in my day job though so I know how to do it right. It's certainly not an easy process and It's no surprise that others had issues. Choosing the right resin and following the correct process is key. Anyone expecting to simply pour resin over a table and wait will find themselves disappointed.

    Anyway, before spending weeks and tons of cash on making new parts, it might be worth taking a look at what is available used near where you live. There are tons of options for precision flat surfaces including (but not limited to) old machine bases, granite surface plates, old coordinate measuring machines, granite inspection tables, old industrial milling tables, machine tables, precision welding tables etc. I have seen precision flat granite tables up to 12 foot x 8 foot...



  6. #54
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    Default Re: CNC ROUTER TABLE FLATNESS

    Flatness is one thing, cutting square is another. Flatness, I used a 6 ft level and leveled my machine both X and Y directions, yes I reversed the level to make sure. Flatness as cutting a board flat, the Same thickness? Use your spoil board cutter and set your router or spindle up to finish your spoil board. Its the same height from one end to the other, making it flat or on the same plane with your gantry. Is that not all you need to do?

    You end up with a board or whatever the same thickness and I do it all the time. Think about it.

    Why do you need to surface grind the table, its not a milling machine, its a router.

    Added: Since you have a spindle mounted and running, why not just mill your table flat instead of the spoil board? Use a 1/2 carbide end mill for steel, zero it out on the lowest part of your table, take sensible light cuts and just surface it level or actually on the same plane as your gantry?

    Use some common sense and don't try to take off or true a table thats .250 or 6 mm off!!


    Cutting square is another issue.

    Last edited by wmgeorge; 05-01-2019 at 03:59 PM.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP


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    Default Re: CNC ROUTER TABLE FLATNESS

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Flatness is one thing, cutting square is another. Flatness, I used a 6 ft level and leveled my machine both X and Y directions, yes I reversed the level to make sure. Flatness as cutting a board flat, the Same thickness? Use your spoil board cutter and set your router or spindle up to finish your spoil board. Its the same height from one end to the other, making it flat or on the same plane with your gantry. Is that not all you need to do?

    You end up with a board or whatever the same thickness and I do it all the time. Think about it.

    Why do you need to surface grind the table, its not a milling machine, its a router.

    Added: Since you have a spindle mounted and running, why not just mill your table flat instead of the spoil board? Use a 1/2 carbide end mill for steel, zero it out on the lowest part of your table, take sensible light cuts and just surface it level or actually on the same plane as your gantry?

    Use some common sense and don't try to take off or true a table thats .250 or 6 mm off!!


    Cutting square is another issue.
    I suggest that you do think about it

    There are people that build machines that would say other wise

    The regular Router spindle could not run a 1/2" end mill milling steel, all it would do is make a big mess as many have found out

    What you posted does not correct how the machine is going to cut, the Gantry has to be parallel in both planes to the table then the Spindle has to be tramed to the table after the Gantry is aligned to the Table, it will never cut correctly if not, you can not correct it by just cutting the spoil board, or cutting the Table, it's all about the Gantry and the Spindle being aligned with the table

    So if you where able to machine the table frame with the Gantry and spindle not aligned and tramed, then you would have a messed up table

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: CNC ROUTER TABLE FLATNESS

    Really? My router cuts true and flat, I am wanting to hear from others who know. PS Its never been heat treated and ground with a surface grinder....... just as it came from FLA.

    Yes my Z carriage and spindle was Trammed with a dial indicator in all directions,

    Last edited by wmgeorge; 05-02-2019 at 08:34 AM.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP


  9. #57
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    Default Re: CNC ROUTER TABLE FLATNESS

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Really? My router cuts true and flat, I am wanting to hear from others who know. PS Its never been heat treated and ground with a surface grinder....... just as it came from FLA.

    Yes my Z carriage and spindle was Trammed with a dial indicator in all directions,

    Nobody needs to heat treat and Grind /machine the table if it is built right and has no twist in the frame the table will be fine

    It's not only the Zaxes and Spindle that needs to be true to the Table the Gantry has to be also, if the Gantry is not parallel in X and Y plane and you Tram the Z axes and spindle it will not cut true and flat as you say, if the Gantry is not on the same Plane as the Table, you may have got lucky with your machine others have not been so lucky

    Mactec54


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