Spindle Recommendation

[wmgeorge]

I personally would not do it.
There's a very good chance that the fan would suck and atomize the splash coolant and make it a bad and dangerous working environment... and worse than that if it was not a sealed motor.
Fans and coolant don't work well together

My air cooled spindle takes air from the top and blows it down. Flood coolant is low pressure and goes directly on the tool which would be 10-12 inches away.

[teamloks1]

My air cooled spindle takes air from the top and blows it down. Flood coolant is low pressure and goes directly on the tool which would be 10-12 inches away.

yerp same with my spindle sometime it help blow some chip

[Phil_Par]

Adding a new Circuit would be the best option if you can do it, Make it a 30A Circuit 4 wire which then gives you the ability to have 120/240v from the same circuit

Would this set up: 30A at 220v would give me the opportunity to power all my electrical needs?
From the same 220v circuit, 220v would go for the spindle and 120v would go for the spindle water pump, vacuum and controller box where all the PSUs are.
There was a different post that mentioned this set-up as being unbalanced. Is that bad?
The alternative is have two different circuits: one 220v 15A for the spindle and a separate 120v for the other components


Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

[wmgeorge]

Would this set up: 30A at 220v would give me the opportunity to power all my electrical needs?
From the same 220v circuit, 220v would go for the spindle and 120v would go for the spindle water pump, vacuum and controller box where all the PSUs are.
There was a different post that mentioned this set-up as being unbalanced. Is that bad?
The alternative is have two different circuits: one 220v 15A for the spindle and a separate 120v for the other components


Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

I ran one circuit for 120 volt for the control side and used a 30 amp 240 volt to feed my spindle VFD. You could run 4 wire 240 volt and split off the 120 volt with a neutral wire. Most shops are not wired that way to the 240 volt outlets however. You must run a white or neutral wire and a green equipment ground from your panel and not tie into the green for your neutral. That was banned years ago. Exceptions are for the old style electric stoves.

[mactec54]

Would this set up: 30A at 220v would give me the opportunity to power all my electrical needs?
From the same 220v circuit, 220v would go for the spindle and 120v would go for the spindle water pump, vacuum and controller box where all the PSUs are.
There was a different post that mentioned this set-up as being unbalanced. Is that bad?
The alternative is have two different circuits: one 220v 15A for the spindle and a separate 120v for the other components


Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

It's never a good idea to use 2 different circuits to supply power to a machine, it can be done but you have to be careful how it is wired as you can only use ( 1 ) Ground to the machine for both circuits or you will create a Ground loop

15A 240v would never be big enough for your spindle, 30A circuit minimum, unbalanced is a figment of peoples imagination, there can be some unbalanced situation,s but you would never notice anything with a machine like a CNC Router

[skrubol]

Would this set up: 30A at 220v would give me the opportunity to power all my electrical needs?
From the same 220v circuit, 220v would go for the spindle and 120v would go for the spindle water pump, vacuum and controller box where all the PSUs are.
There was a different post that mentioned this set-up as being unbalanced. Is that bad?
The alternative is have two different circuits: one 220v 15A for the spindle and a separate 120v for the other components


Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

Assuming you go with a single 240v, 4-wire circuit, you can limit the imbalance by branching off 2 120v circuits (1 between each live and neutral. Make sure to use a <= 15A breaker or fuse on each live.) Then try to distribute your 120v loads across the 2 sub-circuits. Probably best to have the vacuum on one and everything else on the other.

[wmgeorge]

I you want a 30 amp 240 volt circuit your going to need a 30 amp circuit breaker. The 120 volt side would then need to have #10 wire. Hot to hot you would have 230 volts, one side to neutral would give you 120 volts. You still need the green or equipment ground.

Frankly its easier and simpler to just run your 30 amp 240 volts to your VFD panel and the 120 volts to the control panel, thats what I did. Easy peasy. Only connection between the two panels is a green equipment ground and the signal voltage that feeds the VFD. My VFD called for a 30 amp breaker on the input line.

Balancing the load is something you do usually in a commercial building. Especially when running 277 volt lighting off 480 volts 3 phase that has a neutral. Not all 480 3 phase carries a neutral wire back from panel.

[wizard]

It is by far better too Power a machine from a single feeder.

If you need 120VAC you can run the neutral wire that the machine. Supply proper breakers for any sub circuits.

Realize that it is fairly easy to find 220 VAC devices like pumps and power supplies for auxiliary equipment.

As for balanced power it is good practice to try to keep the loads balance but this is never perfect in a home. Just imagine how unbalanced you home wiring is when you turn on the microwave.

Would this set up: 30A at 220v would give me the opportunity to power all my electrical needs?
From the same 220v circuit, 220v would go for the spindle and 120v would go for the spindle water pump, vacuum and controller box where all the PSUs are.
There was a different post that mentioned this set-up as being unbalanced. Is that bad?

It is only unbalanced if you don’t take the effort to apply the loads evenly to the two legs of the supply.

The alternative is have two different circuits: one 220v 15A for the spindle and a separate 120v for the other components

That isn’t a good idea at all.

Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

[wmgeorge]

It is by far better too Power a machine from a single feeder.

If you need 120VAC you can run the neutral wire that the machine. Supply proper breakers for any sub circuits.

Realize that it is fairly easy to find 220 VAC devices like pumps and power supplies for auxiliary equipment.

As for balanced power it is good practice to try to keep the loads balance but this is never perfect in a home. Just imagine how unbalanced you home wiring is when you turn on the microwave.


It is only unbalanced if you don’t take the effort to apply the loads evenly to the two legs of the supply.

That isn’t a good idea at all.

After being an electrician nearly all my life and having the credentials , I can tell you the advice I gave is correct. You can have more than one voltage source feeding a machine legally and safely if done correctly as I noted. We did it all the time, as I described Taking your 120 volts off the 30 amp 240 volt feed to the spindle means you now need to run a #10 wire for the neutral.

[Phil_Par]

CNC Router Parts sell their kits with your recommended approach; 120v for electronics and 220v for spindle.

I will also follow this set-up since I have everything I need to make this work. For the single 220v input approach I would need to rewire my 3 pin 220v outlet to a 4 pin to get a neutral through there along with more wiring in the control boxes.

[Bob La Londe]

I'm sure most of this has been been covered in six pages of replies, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway.

I have two "110V" spindle setups. Both are water cooled and just 1 horsepower. I use them for relatievely low power 3D maching in aluminum. The also work just fine in wood, but you do have to rememer that wood can be as har ( or harder in some cases) than aluminum an that I am using a relatively low power spindle. If I was doing very large projects that might be an issue, but typically I am not doing anything larger than 6" x 12" and with those spindles usually less. My larger machines tend to do heavy milling and have totally different spindles.

Anyway, back to my 110V spindles. A liquid cooled spindle will be quieter than an air cooled spindle. Even when running at 24K they are quiet enough to have a conversation until you start cutting. One of my 110V setups is really a 220V spindle with a 110 in 220 out Hitachi VFD. 1HP is the largest I have found for that. I bought it for a 110V machine with an odd cast iron spindle mount size of 62mm. When the spindle wore out I couldn't find a 62mm 110V spindle so I went with a 220V spindle and changed the VFD. It works great. The machine was originally all 110V and I wanted to keep it all 110V so if I ever sell it anybody can use it. I use it mostly for engraving. My other 110V spindle is just a Chinese "package" with a VFD and a spindle. They are both labeled 110V. I don't know if that is true or if they are a 110/220 setup like my Hitachi, but I have not put that many hours on it. It was run on my little Taig mill which I currently have on a shelf as other machines now do everything it once did. It worked just fine. It definitely could do anything within the capability of the light frame of a Taig mill.

When I bought my 110V setups I was pretty familiar with what I could or couldn't do as my previous spindle of choice was the infamous Bosch Colt 1HP router. I actually had to back off a little and actually start calculating speeds and feeds as I think the Bosch Colt has more "uncontrolled power" and turns 10K faster. HSM Adviser and its mobile ap companion FS Wizard became my goto for setting up feeds and speed and calculating horsepower requirements. I typically keep my horsepower loads for cuts under 1/4 HP and since I am often using very tiny cutters loads are often don in .01 - .05 HP range. Still often I could theoretically feed faster than the rapids on my machine, so it wasn't really an issue.

Best of luck.

[mactec54]

After being an electrician nearly all my life and having the credentials , I can tell you the advice I gave is correct. You can have more than one voltage source feeding a machine legally and safely if done correctly as I noted. We did it all the time, as I described Taking your 120 volts off the 30 amp 240 volt feed to the spindle means you now need to run a #10 wire for the neutral.

Yes true but you are dealing with Hobby users not what you have done, most hobby users do not know how to wire from 2 different outlets, so don't confuse the issue, most that use from 2 sources end up with problems from Ground loops

So the best for a Hobby user that does not know how is to run a 240v 4 wire service to there machine and split it up from there 120v/240v

[mactec54]

As for balanced power it is good practice to try to keep the loads balance but this is never perfect in a home. Just imagine how unbalanced you home wiring is when you turn on the microwave.

It is only unbalanced if you don’t take the effort to apply the loads evenly to the two legs of the supply.

That isn’t a good idea at all.

The USA supply is 120v / 240v not 220v

Unbalanced 240v supply has no affect on anything

The power you draw from L1 can be the max current up to the rated wires capacity or the Breaker in that circuit it has no affect on L2 they are ( 2 ) separate cables from the transformer, the transformer does not care, you can load either L1 or L2 any way you want with no affect to anything

They only try to balance the circuits in residential because a lot don't have that much amperage to play with, so splitting the load on L1 A Breaker and L2 B Breaker is a normal thing to do, it's not because it has to be done like this

[mactec54]

I'm sure most of this has been been covered in six pages of replies, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway.

I have two "110V" spindle setups. Both are water cooled and just 1 horsepower. I use them for relatievely low power 3D maching in aluminum. The also work just fine in wood, but you do have to rememer that wood can be as har ( or harder in some cases) than aluminum an that I am using a relatively low power spindle. If I was doing very large projects that might be an issue, but typically I am not doing anything larger than 6" x 12" and with those spindles usually less. My larger machines tend to do heavy milling and have totally different spindles.

Anyway, back to my 110V spindles. A liquid cooled spindle will be quieter than an air cooled spindle. Even when running at 24K they are quiet enough to have a conversation until you start cutting. One of my 110V setups is really a 220V spindle with a 110 in 220 out Hitachi VFD. 1HP is the largest I have found for that. I bought it for a 110V machine with an odd cast iron spindle mount size of 62mm. When the spindle wore out I couldn't find a 62mm 110V spindle so I went with a 220V spindle and changed the VFD. It works great. The machine was originally all 110V and I wanted to keep it all 110V so if I ever sell it anybody can use it. I use it mostly for engraving. My other 110V spindle is just a Chinese "package" with a VFD and a spindle. They are both labeled 110V. I don't know if that is true or if they are a 110/220 setup like my Hitachi, but I have not put that many hours on it. It was run on my little Taig mill which I currently have on a shelf as other machines now do everything it once did. It worked just fine. It definitely could do anything within the capability of the light frame of a Taig mill.

When I bought my 110V setups I was pretty familiar with what I could or couldn't do as my previous spindle of choice was the infamous Bosch Colt 1HP router. I actually had to back off a little and actually start calculating speeds and feeds as I think the Bosch Colt has more "uncontrolled power" and turns 10K faster. HSM Adviser and its mobile ap companion FS Wizard became my goto for setting up feeds and speed and calculating horsepower requirements. I typically keep my horsepower loads for cuts under 1/4 HP and since I am often using very tiny cutters loads are often don in .01 - .05 HP range. Still often I could theoretically feed faster than the rapids on my machine, so it wasn't really an issue.

Best of luck.

Your Hitachi has a doubler built in and your supply is 120v that is how you get the 220v output this is the best way to do it, if you only have the 120v supply the only limitation is how big you can go and still have a reasonable performance which is around 1.5Kw spindle for a 120v mains supply

[mactec54]

CNC Router Parts sell their kits with your recommended approach; 120v for electronics and 220v for spindle.

I will also follow this set-up since I have everything I need to make this work. For the single 220v input approach I would need to rewire my 3 pin 220v outlet to a 4 pin to get a neutral through there along with more wiring in the control boxes.

Correct You need to rewire your 240v supply with a Neutral added this is the normal way to do it

[wmgeorge]

Yes true but you are dealing with Hobby users not what you have done, most hobby users do not know how to wire from 2 different outlets, so don't confuse the issue, most that use from 2 sources end up with problems from Ground loops

So the best for a Hobby user that does not know how is to run a 240v 4 wire service to there machine and split it up from there 120v/240v

You can not have a AC ground loop when your grounding from the same source or panel. There can be only one ground rod on a building electrical service, more than one they all need to be bonded together to avoid ground loops. My 240 volt VFD box has no connection to the 120 vac except for the ground and the DC control voltage which is isolated. Its entirely up to Code, and more important... works fine.

[mactec54]

You can not have a AC ground loop when your grounding from the same source or panel. There can be only one ground rod on a building electrical service, more than one they all need to be bonded together to avoid ground loops. My 240 volt VFD box has no connection to the 120 vac except for the ground and the DC control voltage which is isolated. Its entirely up to Code, and more important... works fine.

You are a very confused, it was not about what you where doing Please read what was posted, it is what most Hobby users do, they take a 120v supply 3 wires and a 240v supply 3 wires this is where they get a ground loop they are using ( 2 ) separate Grounds, if you don't see this then you should not comment about electrical installations, this creates a Ground loop you can only use ( 1 ) Main Ground wire

[wmgeorge]

You are a very confused, it was not about what you where doing Please read what was posted, it is what most Hobby users do, they take a 120v supply 3 wires and a 240v supply 3 wires this is where they get a ground loop they are using ( 2 ) separate Grounds, if you don't see this then you should not comment about electrical installations, this creates a Ground loop you can only use ( 1 ) Main Ground wire

OK here we go again... the AC service ground and the equipment ground in the panel come from the same source, the exact same ground bar. There can not be a ground loop when both wires come from the same source. Both wires are connected to the metal frame of the machine, they are NOT the neutral nor do they carry current so they can not be a ground loop! Its impossible for two wires attached to the same point at both ends.

[mactec54]

OK here we go again... the AC service ground and the equipment ground in the panel come from the same source, the exact same ground bar. There can not be a ground loop when both wires come from the same source. Both wires are connected to the metal frame of the machine, they are NOT the neutral nor do they carry current so they can not be a ground loop! Its impossible for two wires attached to the same point at both ends.

You can only use ( 1 ) Equipment Ground, check the Code you saw the video I posted or have you forgotten already

A ground loop is caused by the interconnection of electrical equipment that results in there being multiple paths to ground this speaks for it's self

[wmgeorge]

You can only use ( 1 ) Equipment Ground, check the Code you saw the video I posted or have you forgotten already

A ground loop is caused by the interconnection of electrical equipment that results in there being multiple paths to ground this speaks for it's self

It is physically impossible for a AC equipment ground to have multiple paths to ground IF THEY ARE BOTH CONNECTED to the same point at both ends. The service panel end and the equipment end are both connected to a common point. The machine end has all grounds connected to the metal frame or machine. IMPOSSIBLE. Think about it. They are parallel paths.

Your video was on an entire different subject.

Mac its the NPD kicking in again....?