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Thread: Spindle Recommendation

  1. #37
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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Phil you can listen to a guy that knows and has done it for over 50 years, or you listen to some guy BS on the internet. I have credentials he has none. There is nothing in the NEC covering what he is saying. BTW the drain wire is twisted and either soldered or crimped to un-braided mesh shield. Pretty damn simple I have seen it done thousands of times. As a licensed radio tech, its pretty hard to make an antenna out of wire 1/2 inch long going to a solid metal ground.
    It just shows your ignorance, nobody quoted NEC, we know who is talking BS, that is quite obvious, look at the Graph it shows what you get when you add a tail to a shield, this is only at low frequency it is much worse when using singe phase high frequency VFD drive

    Look at your VFD manual you will see it is plan and clear, but I guess you know better than the manufacture

    From your Hitachi Manual

    Both earth portions of the shielded cable must be connected to the earth point by cable clamps.

    I guess you get confused with what the manufacturers requirements mean, as you know better than they do

    Snip from your Hitachi Manual

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Recommendation-hitachi-vfd-wiring-2-png  
    Mactec54


  2. #38
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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Mactec 54, if your internet went down and you lost google YOU would be lost. What are your credentials? What have you done besides run a production CNC machine and surf the internet? What have you done, nothing. A hunk of wire 1/2 inch long can not be an antenna for anything when its hooked to ground, think about it.

    PS My setup works perfectly and I wired it the way I described to Phil. I just don't read, I do it.

    Last edited by wmgeorge; 02-21-2019 at 07:42 PM.
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router


  3. #39
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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Mactec 54, if your internet went down and you lost google YOU would be lost. What are your credentials? What have you done besides run a production CNC machine and surf the internet? What have you done, nothing. A hunk of wire 1/2 inch long can not be an antenna for anything when its hooked to ground, think about it.

    PS My setup works perfectly and I wired it the way I described to Phil. I just don't read, I do it.
    I don't have Google as my web browser so don't use it at all, My credentials I don't have to brag about as some have too

    As for the tail you add, it does not matter how long it is, it is unshielded before it gets to Ground and will emit noise, if you have an EMF meter and not a cheap one as they don't work very well, you will find that your little tail is emitting noise

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    I don't have Google as my web browser so don't use it at all, My credentials I don't have to brag about as some have too

    As for the tail you add, it does not matter how long it is, it is unshielded before it gets to Ground and will emit noise, if you have an EMF meter and not a cheap one as they don't work very well, you will find that your little tail is emitting noise
    Well your wrong and its thats it. If you had something that Was emitting RF or EMI how would it get out of your grounded metal enclosure? What wave length is is emitting, and what is it going to interfere with? Your problem is you rely on your google searches and what you find on the internet while others have done it. Your way out of your league partner.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router


  5. #41
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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Thanks again for sharing your personal preference on grounding best practices. My take on this: I Will use clamps or grounding leads where possible. Not stressing too much about it because at the end of the day, both practices mentioned will work.

    I did a quick google search for EMD cable clamps and they are not widely available. They seem to be mostly used in industrial settings. The one supplier charge $8.50 CAD per clamp and $10 for handling. Price seems elevated for only 8 clamps that I need. I will buy a copper sheet and cut some strips to create my own EMD clamp. I will try and use the DIY clamp or collar where possible because I had those fragile grounding leads break on me before; I know I have fat stupid hands. Using the clamp will be faster than soldering the grounding lead as well.



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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Par View Post
    Thanks again for sharing your personal preference on grounding best practices. My take on this: I Will use clamps or grounding leads where possible. Not stressing too much about it because at the end of the day, both practices mentioned will work.

    I did a quick google search for EMD cable clamps and they are not widely available. They seem to be mostly used in industrial settings. The one supplier charge $8.50 CAD per clamp and $10 for handling. Price seems elevated for only 8 clamps that I need. I will buy a copper sheet and cut some strips to create my own EMD clamp. I will try and use the DIY clamp or collar where possible because I had those fragile grounding leads break on me before; I know I have fat stupid hands. Using the clamp will be faster than soldering the grounding lead as well.
    Yes that is correct. The clamps are far faster than the soldering the braid and drain wire as I described above. Most DIY builders do not have the money to pay for those expensive special clamps thats why the way I used is more popular. The important thing is get it all grounded and you will not have issues. You might look into copper clamps used for water lines or copper plumbers strap to make your own out of. Just make sure they are copper, take a magnet along to make sure they are not copper plated steel. I have no issues with my machine at all and I have ran 8 - 10 hour jobs.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router


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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Par View Post
    Thanks again for sharing your personal preference on grounding best practices. My take on this: I Will use clamps or grounding leads where possible. Not stressing too much about it because at the end of the day, both practices mentioned will work.

    I did a quick google search for EMD cable clamps and they are not widely available. They seem to be mostly used in industrial settings. The one supplier charge $8.50 CAD per clamp and $10 for handling. Price seems elevated for only 8 clamps that I need. I will buy a copper sheet and cut some strips to create my own EMD clamp. I will try and use the DIY clamp or collar where possible because I had those fragile grounding leads break on me before; I know I have fat stupid hands. Using the clamp will be faster than soldering the grounding lead as well.
    ,

    You are working with industrial equipment and have to be wired and set up the same as they would be in an industrial environment

    You don't have to solder anything there is no need

    You can go to your local hardware store and get the clamps you need, you can even make your own from a piece of copper or find a copper saddle, the spring clips are at hardware stores you just have to get creative and find them they won't be the same as what I posted but as lone as the snap around the braid and are tight that is all you need

    You can even use plastic cable clamps and use copper foil tape to make them look like in the snips below

    The EMF hardware you can buy are mostly made from spring steel it does not have to be copper

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Recommendation-shield-grounding-clamps-png   Spindle Recommendation-shield-clamp-12-png   Spindle Recommendation-emi-copper-tape-png  
    Last edited by mactec54; 02-22-2019 at 04:38 PM.
    Mactec54


  8. #44
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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Most DIY builders do not have the money to pay for those expensive special clamps thats why the way I used is more popular.
    No it is not popular at all, its only in your mind, Most hobby user's no better than to do it this way already

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Yes they are junk and do not work well nobody should buy a 120V 3ph spindle of any size range, these are just made for the newbies that buy them because they don't know any better
    I'm afraid that I'm one of those newbies that didn't know any better. I bought one of those rated for 110V 2.2kw spindles like this one:
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-2k...AbTest=ae803_4

    I can't return it because it's been over a year since the initial purchase. I planned on installing it this spring.
    I decided on this water cooled spindle because I don't like the noise or the dust getting blown around from an air cooled setup like a router.

    What would now be my best solution to get the most out of my poor selection? Is it the VFD, Spindle, or both the problem?
    Is there a way to reprogram or modify/change the setup to get 240V performance from what I now have and basically stuck with?

    When I asked the seller about the performance difference between the 110V and 220V, they of course told me similar because they said the VFD controls the motor, not the initial input voltage. They also told me that the 220V VFD version is fed on 1 line (like UK) instead of 2 110V lines like our system does. I don't have a background that would help me know any better.


    .



  10. #46
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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Threre you go again Mactec So answer my question above. Where does RF or EMI go when its inside a grounded metal enclosure?

    Last edited by wmgeorge; 02-22-2019 at 11:04 PM.


  11. #47
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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    i got 2x110 in the shop
    no 220 single line

    i can not say anyone should follow it i just posting it

    R and S are live
    T neutral plus i using ground from a ground rod

    it working for me

    drive is a sunfar 1.5 kw

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Recommendation-0220191156_burst01-jpg  


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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    I've spent hours googling for cable clamps to "do it the right away". Found manufacturers, but I am yet to actually find a decent source, particularly at a reasonable price.

    7xCNC.com - CNC info for the minilathe (7x10, 7x12, 7x14, 7x16)


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