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  1. #25
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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    But it requires twice the amps to achieve the same 746watts, on the different voltages, that's elementary level math V(V) = P(W) / I(A) the Amp requirement it what is different, between using 120v and 240v, as for a transformer you always size a transformer to eliminate any loss there might be

    This is the difference

    120v @ 746w= 6.2 amps

    240v @ 746w=3.1 amps
    Watts are the same, therefore Hp rating is the same. Wattage is the measure of work performed. Wire size is based on amp draw. All transformers have losses.... look it up. All pretty basic stuff.

    https://www.copper.org/environment/s...ns_losses.html

    https://www.electricaleasy.com/2014/...fficiency.html

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4


  2. #26
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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Wmgeorge and mactec, thanks for the info provided. Going back to the basics helps understand the limitations of the motors in question.
    I was extremely skeptical about adding a 220v outlet to power a spindle but after some digging it seems a very easy process. Risk serious injury involved but I would let my buddy work on the breaker panel and I will do the wiring; he is an electrician. I think this will be the best solution. Which is what I was recommended at first but was not aware how simple the work is, my bad.
    Now, I will need to decide if I want a 220v 1.5kw or 2.2kw spindle...back to researching a bit more!



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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Par View Post
    Wmgeorge and mactec, thanks for the info provided. Going back to the basics helps understand the limitations of the motors in question.
    I was extremely skeptical about adding a 220v outlet to power a spindle but after some digging it seems a very easy process. Risk serious injury involved but I would let my buddy work on the breaker panel and I will do the wiring; he is an electrician. I think this will be the best solution. Which is what I was recommended at first but was not aware how simple the work is, my bad.
    Now, I will need to decide if I want a 220v 1.5kw or 2.2kw spindle...back to researching a bit more!
    Since my shop is wired for 240 volts it was a no-brainer for me. My control panel is a CNCRP 120 volt pre-wired plug and play and it had outputs to control the VFD from Mach3. You want the 2.2 kW spindle. I went with a Hitachi VFD but would not do it again. You do not need all the bells and whistles. Make sure your drive is rated for single phase input and will go up to 400 Hz. Mactec has a lot of experience with the Chinese drives.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4


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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Do I need to mount the VFD to a metal plate? There is no space in my metal controller box 120v powered. I was considering mounting it outside of the box on a wooden post. If a ground is coming from the 220v power, do I really need to mount it on a metal plate that is grounded?
    Do I need shielded cable from the VFD to the Spindle? What cable should I use? If I want a connection from my UB1 BOB to the VFD, does it need to be shielded as well? Gauge?



  5. #29
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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Par View Post
    Do I need to mount the VFD to a metal plate? There is no space in my metal controller box 120v powered. I was considering mounting it outside of the box on a wooden post. If a ground is coming from the 220v power, do I really need to mount it on a metal plate that is grounded?
    Do I need shielded cable from the VFD to the Spindle? What cable should I use? If I want a connection from my UB1 BOB to the VFD, does it need to be shielded as well? Gauge?
    I got a metal enclosure off Amazon for around a $100 or so then mounted a Square D 30 amp circuit breaker in a metal box outside for an off and on switch (required disconnect). The metal enclosure above came with a removable metal mounting plate inside. Yes it all needs to be grounded, the plate, the box and box cover which does come with a bonding jumper installed. Yes the stranded wire cable to the spindle also needs to be shielded and the spindle grounded also. Otherwise you will get lots of EMI and RFI that will get into your controller and cause issues.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4


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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Par View Post
    Do I need to mount the VFD to a metal plate? There is no space in my metal controller box 120v powered. I was considering mounting it outside of the box on a wooden post. If a ground is coming from the 220v power, do I really need to mount it on a metal plate that is grounded?
    Do I need shielded cable from the VFD to the Spindle? What cable should I use? If I want a connection from my UB1 BOB to the VFD, does it need to be shielded as well? Gauge?
    If you have a Z Axes that moves up/Down then you need A high flex shielded cable like this from IGUS CF6-15-04 for 2.2Kw spindle or CF6-10-04 for 1.5Kw spindle Igus is in Canada

    As for mounting any thing Electrical it should be mounted on a metal Plate ( Ground Plane ) with is Grounded have a Star Point Grounding Stud, Shields also Terminate also to this Ground Plane Plate

    A few snips to help guide you with your wiring

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Recommendation-grounding-wire-mounting-png   Spindle Recommendation-gounding-post-case-png   Spindle Recommendation-grounding-shields-7-png   Spindle Recommendation-grounding-shields-6-jpg  

    Spindle Recommendation-shield-clamp-3-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Thanks again Mactec. I will attached the ground to the fourth pin on the spindle if it does not come attached and the other end to the spindle just like a pic you posted elsewhere.

    The shield on the vfd end would go to ground of the vfd -or- will it be attached to the metal plate or ground plane with the methods recommended (clamp, collar,etc)?
    (I get that the ground plane and vfd unit ground should be interconnected and would not matter if I ground the cable shield to either of those but I can't really picture using a clamp or collar on the vfd ground terminal)

    How do I attach the shield to the spindle ground? similar to before, I cant really picture using a clamp or collar to ground the shield



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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Par View Post
    Thanks again Mactec. I will attached the ground to the fourth pin on the spindle if it does not come attached and the other end to the spindle just like a pic you posted elsewhere.

    The shield on the vfd end would go to ground of the vfd -or- will it be attached to the metal plate or ground plane with the methods recommended (clamp, collar,etc)?
    (I get that the ground plane and vfd unit ground should be interconnected and would not matter if I ground the cable shield to either of those but I can't really picture using a clamp or collar on the vfd ground terminal)



    How do I attach the shield to the spindle ground? similar to before, I cant really picture using a clamp or collar to ground the shield
    The clamp is used for termination in control boxes. shielded cable can be terminated by breaking/raking out the shield and twisting with the drain wire and either crimping or soldering a terminal to connect to ground. Learned that working for the USAF back in the early 60's and also when building radio transmitters. Any of the ham radio guys can show you how to do it or a google will bring it up.
    Big debate going on weither it should be just grounded at one end or both ends. I think control wire shielding should be grounded at just one end and the power shielding just at the power source end. Big debate.... look it up. Mine is grounded at both ends.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4


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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Thanks George, I will use the drain wire to ground the shielded cable on both ends and use a collar or clamp to ground when going to the controller box.



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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    The clamp is used for termination in control boxes. shielded cable can be terminated by breaking/raking out the shield and twisting with the drain wire and either crimping or soldering a terminal to connect to ground. Learned that working for the USAF back in the early 60's and also when building radio transmitters. Any of the ham radio guys can show you how to do it or a google will bring it up.
    Big debate going on weither it should be just grounded at one end or both ends. I think control wire shielding should be grounded at just one end and the power shielding just at the power source end. Big debate.... look it up. Mine is grounded at both ends.
    There is no Debate

    We are not talking about radio transmitters they have there own set of problems

    Back in the day that is how it was done ( adding a tail ) until people found that they where creating an antenna by doing it that way, today you connect direct to a Ground plane to have correct shield bonding, you don't do it like that any more, if you do it that way you should not waste your money buying a shielded cable as it is not very affective

    There is no debate about VFD Shield Termination, is a EMC requirement and every VFD Drive Manufacture will tell you the same, your Hitachi VFD will show examples of this in there manual

    With your spindle you have to be creative because these plugs where not designed to be used with Shielded cable, a snip of a cable ready for one of these spindle plugs, so where you see the removed insulation you rap this with copper foil this then gets clamped by the cable restraint

    If you really want to do a perfect job of your spindle connection, you would direct wire the cable to the spindle using a EMC Gland / Restraint as in the snips

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Recommendation-shield-grounding-png   Spindle Recommendation-cable-prep-shield-clamping-png   Spindle Recommendation-shield-clamp-9-png   Spindle Recommendation-shield-gland-cable-restraint-png  

    Spindle Recommendation-shield-grounding-1-png  
    Mactec54


  11. #35
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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Par View Post
    Thanks George, I will use the drain wire to ground the shielded cable on both ends and use a collar or clamp to ground when going to the controller box.
    No you should not use the Drain wire as George has said, this is a bad Idea, look at the graph as you see it does not provide a very good Grounding of the shield

    Mactec54


  12. #36
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    Default Re: Spindle Recommendation

    Phil you can listen to a guy that knows and has done it for over 50 years, or you listen to some guy BS on the internet. I have credentials he has none. There is nothing in the NEC covering what he is saying. BTW the drain wire is twisted and either soldered or crimped to un-braided mesh shield. Pretty damn simple I have seen it done thousands of times. As a licensed radio tech, its pretty hard to make an antenna out of wire 1/2 inch long going to a solid metal ground.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4


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