cup probe

1. ## cup probe

I'm wondering if there is a probe design that is essentially an inverted 3 ball probe design with a cup on the end of the probe. The idea of the cup is that you could get x/y position finding "hole center" on a part without knowing the tool diameter and you could also get Z. The biggest problem I can see is that you would have issues with 2 flute cutters. Does such a thing exist?

2. ## Re: cup probe

Not sure if I am following you. What does probing have to do with tool diameter or number of flutes? Could you draw a sketch of the probe you are proposing?

3. ## Re: cup probe

something like this

4. ## Re: cup probe

Sorry, still confused.
Are you going to mount the probe on the table and touch the cup with the tool? What for?

5. ## Re: cup probe

Originally Posted by CitizenOfDreams
Sorry, still confused.
Are you going to mount the probe on the table and touch the cup with the tool? What for?
you could locate it on the table or the part. the tool would touch the cup at the top. The location would be found via hole center finding which needs any 3 points. The 2 flute cutter may not produce accurate 3 points. Rotating the 2 flute cutter 90 degrees may permit accurate positioning. The nice thing about the idea is you don't need to know (input) the tool diameter. I suppose you always need to know the tool diameter for you cam though so maybe this gains you not much vs something like using a corner or a tooling ball....

6. ## Re: cup probe

It sounds like you are trying to combine a tool setter with a touch probe.

There are 3 types of tool setters that I know of; Optical, a flat top switch type and a 3 axis system.

The optical is crazy expensive, the 3 axis system is almost crazy expensive, and the flat top switch is pretty inexpensive.

Let's look at the 3 axis system. It will measure the tool height and diameter, and is done with a flat top carbide ''puck'' on the end of the setter. Approaching from the top it will measure the height, and with the tool rotating backwards it will measure the diameter and location. You might be able to use this technique with the system you show above.

7. ## Re: cup probe

Locating the probe on the table makes no sense to me. You already know the tool's X-Y position in relation to the table: it is displayed on your DROs (provided the machine is calibrated).

Locating the probe on the part makes _some_ sense, but the part must have a special hole to mount the probe. This method does have one advantage: you do not have to change the tool for the probe and back for the tool.

8. ## Re: cup probe

Originally Posted by Jim Dawson
Let's look at the 3 axis system. It will measure the tool height and diameter
Oh, OK, it does make sense to me now. I was thinking about a probe to locate the part, not a tool setter to measure the tool.

9. ## Re: cup probe

Originally Posted by Jim Dawson
It sounds like you are trying to combine a tool setter with a touch probe.

There are 3 types of tool setters that I know of; Optical, a flat top switch type and a 3 axis system.

The optical is crazy expensive, the 3 axis system is almost crazy expensive, and the flat top switch is pretty inexpensive.

Let's look at the 3 axis system. It will measure the tool height and diameter, and is done with a flat top carbide ''puck'' on the end of the setter. Approaching from the top it will measure the height, and with the tool rotating backwards it will measure the diameter and location. You might be able to use this technique with the system you show above.

I wonder why they use a puck vs some other topology?

10. ## Re: cup probe

Originally Posted by jschoch
I wonder why they use a puck vs some other topology?
Because it makes calculations simple. Z remains the same even if you are touching the puck off-center. X and Y use the same principle as probing a round hole. No other geometry would give you the same simplicity (except for a cup which has some disadvantages: it is harder to make, it is harder to clean, it has a tool diameter limit).

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