Looking for a better router spindle drive

[justCNCit]

Hi

I currently am using the very common M12VC Hitachi router 2-1/4 HP.

I'm looking to build a larger CNC than the 2 x 4 ft machine than I have. I own 3 of these routers and rotate them as they wear out, and use the machine a lot to where the bearings, armature or brushes usually go in 2-3 months. I've seen people use AC motors with belt and pulley are there any examples of that as a main spindle drive? Otherwise can someone recommend a router that can take more of a beating over time? I'm cutting wood, cedar or MDF. I use 1/2" diameter cutters a lot, such as 1/2" carbide ball mill, 3/4" carbide end mill, often with 1/8" depth of cut and .5" step over at from 100-350 IPM.

Thanks

Similar Threads:

• Need Help!- I.H. Belt drive conversion spindle drive sleeve gear
• Large CNC Router for Steel & Aluminium - BELT DRIVE SPINDLE and other questions
• New Machine Build- Bobcad ver.26 with Mach3 gantry Router with 2kw spindle on Drive.
• can use vector drive for control router spindle?
• Wood router, suitable spindle drive like shopbot?

[ger21]

Why not a cheap chinese spindle and VFD like everyone else is using?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-BEARIN...4bff:rk:1:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3KW-ER20-Ai...342f:rk:4:pf:0

[justCNCit]

Hi Ger and thanks, the problem with your suggestion last time, was when I pulled up the link they had the spindle for a couple thousand US for some reason. $300 is very reasonable. I guess this one will not be able to automatically tool change

[ger21]

No, if you want an ATC, the cost is 10-15x higher.

[dharmic]

Guessing your routers don't have ATC on them either, so the cheap spindle is more on par with what you have now. Don't forget that it gives you a much, much quieter machine (you won't believe just how much nicer it is to be nearby a proper spindle after the router), speed control for different tool sizes and materials, and no more brushes to change. So it'll be an upgrade.

ATC would be nice to have, but it's an expensive nice - as you've seen. Even then, don't forget the $30-100 per tool holder, the tool rack, the height setter etc... it's an expensive process.

[coherent]

The performance and accuracy/runout of even the low cost import spindle.VFD combos will well exceed and outperform almost any router. The ability to easily turn on/off spindle and regulate the rpm via the gcode is a huge plus also. Personally when I weigh the cost of an ATC vs the gcode/machine shutting off the spindle, parking at a tool change position, allowing me to make a manual tool change and then re-zeroing the height for me before continuing... it's just not worth the excessive cost unless you are doing lots of production work or are just rich enough to have the toys you want and money isn't an issue. (but my guess is if you are already using a router and not a 5-10k dollar Colombo spindle, that's not the case.) You can get a nice spindle and VFD combo that exceeds the HP rating of your router and accepts 1/2" bits for well under $500 including power cable, wiring etc..

[justCNCit]

I wish I knew about this before buying the 2 replacements. At least they only cost $160 each in Canada. And yes it is very loud so that is an important factor also as well as electronic speed control.

I'm sitting around at a machine shop with access to lots of equipment and would love to know what's inside that Chinese ATC so that I can begin machining my own and assemble it.

[ger21]

You can buy one for ~$90 to take apart.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-1-5KW-...34b:rk:23:pf:0

[justCNCit]

The one with the automatic tool changer I'd like to see apart

[ger21]

There are DIY ATC spindle build threads here somewhere, from several years back.

[justCNCit]

This looks like an informative thread

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/bench...roject-12.html

[wizard]

I wish I knew about this before buying the 2 replacements. At least they only cost $160 each in Canada. And yes it is very loud so that is an important factor also as well as electronic speed control.

I'm sitting around at a machine shop with access to lots of equipment and would love to know what's inside that Chinese ATC so that I can begin machining my own and assemble it.

There are a number of drawings or illustration of ATC mechanisms on the net. A DIY solution is very possible if you have a well equipped machine shop. In general you need a heavy spring, often belvue washers and a way to grip the knob on the tapered toolholder.

Obviously there are many details to consider. Many of those details are in the knob gripper. Doing a good gripper will likely involve haardened steel parts and the grinding or machine of them.

[justCNCit]

A nice PDF on internal operation of ATC

https://littlemachineshop.com/images...werDrawbar.pdf

One of the main reasons I would like to design and build my own, replacement parts are cheap and can be remade any time in the machine shop, one of the big problems with CNC machines is special replacement parts from manufacturers that people don't think about in the long term and special skills to do the repair/replace.

[ger21]

You're looking at low RPM milling spindles, which are night and day from a high speed router spindle.

I'd expect it to take several hundred hours to design and build your own ATC spindle, if you have the tools and skill to pull it off.

As for replacement parts, the bearings are really the only moving parts, that ever need replacing.

[ger21]

How about this one:

https://tinyurl.com/y9hwvjrk

[justCNCit]

Cool but I guess the RPM's are fairly low like a few thousand RPM

[Bob La Londe]

Guessing your routers don't have ATC on them either, so the cheap spindle is more on par with what you have now. Don't forget that it gives you a much, much quieter machine (you won't believe just how much nicer it is to be nearby a proper spindle after the router), speed control for different tool sizes and materials, and no more brushes to change. So it'll be an upgrade.

ATC would be nice to have, but it's an expensive nice - as you've seen. Even then, don't forget the $30-100 per tool holder, the tool rack, the height setter etc... it's an expensive process.

All of that is true, but you will still have to do bearing changes regularly if you run them hard and or continuously. Many spindles that have warranties are 1-2 years, but only six months on the bearings. When I ran wood routers I'd have to rebuild or replace them every few weeks if I was machining every day. It quickly became obvious I was spending a lot more on wood routers than I would on proper spindles. Admittedly I was pushing them pretty darned hard. Overheating the bearings was the primary issue. Plastic nose spindles would sometimes melt or soften and get sloppy. That's a big argument in favor of a steel body water cooled spindle in my opinion.

[skrubol]

Warm-up procedure can help bearing life a lot as well.

[coherent]

I suppose you could design and use something like the TTS tool holders, but most anything you see suitable for DIY stuff is for mills and other lower RPM spindles. The precision and balance required when you start talking about 12k-24k or higher ATC spindles is going to be pretty tough to fab. I doubt the TLL tool holder is rated for the higher RPMs but I may be mistaken. At any rate it would likely need to be sent out to be professionally balanced. I may be wrong but I doubt your shop has the capability. A imbalance at 3000 rpm is 25 times worse at 15000 rpm and would quickly destroy the bearings in a spindle if not precision balanced. Balancing of toolholders is difficult at G levels required for high spindle speeds. Hence the high price of the high speed ATC spindles and holders. Most all use compressed air/pneumatic actuator for the ATC and even the tool holders can be pretty pricey. You may be better off just trying to find a used or rebuilt ATC spindle setup. All of the popular makes/models can be rebuilt. There are a few of them listed on ebay, but prices are in the 3500-4k range

[coherent]

A fellow CNCzone member just posted one he has for sale here: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/ebay-...-software.html