Just a little general information please

[Aerojunkie]

Hello all. Im looking to get my first cnc router and have run a lot of stuff around in my head, also come up with a few questions along the way. Here is the scenario, I have a small cabinet shop looking to add a cnc to compliment my other machines. I am looking at the cnc router parts pro 5x10, nema 34 pnp system, artcam pro, and using a porter cable 7518 to get started. I would like the 3hp pnp spindle but thought the router would be good to start since this would not be cutting the bulk of my cabinet parts just some specialty parts and add some additional woodworking areas. If it looks like im pushing the router to hard then ill buy the spindle and use the router in my shop somewhere else, but if it works fine then use the extra cash for additional software or a vacuum table. With the router I was looking at $11,000 for this setup.

Questions:

1.I use some older Cabnetware and Cabinet Vision, the cutlist files and some optimization. Once setup and I decide to move the process from my panel saw to this cnc(after adding a spindle) what would it take to feed the parts to this router?

2.If I did the above would this be able to handle say 20 sheets of 3/4" ply in a day?

3.I have read of open loop machines losing steps and the cutting going crazy, is this a common thing with this level machine? Can it be prevented?

4.If there are other brands you would recommend please point me there. I liked the price point and positive reviews of cnc router parts, but havent bought anything yet.

Thank you for your help. Wanted a cnc for to long to mess up when I finally get one.

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[wizard]

First off DIY routers are more hobby oriented than commercial solutions. I say more because there is certainly a number of builders here that in fact build for commercial uses. What that mix is I wouldn't want to guess.

Hello all. Im looking to get my first cnc router and have run a lot of stuff around in my head, also come up with a few questions along the way. Here is the scenario, I have a small cabinet shop looking to add a cnc to compliment my other machines.

If you are like most business owners the machine needs to pay for itself eventually or it just becomes a boat anchor. So you need a plan to use the machine and that paln would dictate what sort of machine to buy.

I am looking at the cnc router parts pro 5x10, nema 34 pnp system, artcam pro, and using a porter cable 7518 to get started. I would like the 3hp pnp spindle but thought the router would be good to start since this would not be cutting the bulk of my cabinet parts just some specialty parts and add some additional woodworking areas.

This doesn't sound like much of a plan to make a $10,000 machine pay for itself. Frankly routers don't make very good spindles so i'd put the router idea on the back burner.

If it looks like im pushing the router to hard then ill buy the spindle and use the router in my shop somewhere else, but if it works fine then use the extra cash for additional software or a vacuum table. With the router I was looking at $11,000 for this setup.

Questions:

1.I use some older Cabnetware and Cabinet Vision, the cutlist files and some optimization. Once setup and I decide to move the process from my panel saw to this cnc(after adding a spindle) what would it take to feed the parts to this router?

Technically you don't feed parts to the router you set them up on the router table. For sheet good processing that could mean clamping or screwing down the in such a way that the router avoids the clamping method.

While some will argue a router isn't always at it's best trying to replace a panel saw. You would need to review work flows carefully to best leverage a CNC router. Of course on a more sophisticate machine you can get saw blade heads for your spindle so the argument can go multiple ways. In a small shop though you can't count on your low end CNC router always being the best solution to break down sheet goods.

2.If I did the above would this be able to handle say 20 sheets of 3/4" ply in a day?

With the right machine, spindle, job and controls you might handle 20 in an hour. It is pretty hard to answer this question really, as it is very job related. One thing you run into with routers is that the cutter is going to be changed out far more than a 12 or 14 inch saw blade ever would be. Beyond that once you have automatic equipment the potential is there to automate even more of the process.

In the end the job dictates run time. Thankfully modern CAM software will estimate cut times for you.

3.I have read of open loop machines losing steps and the cutting going crazy, is this a common thing with this level machine? Can it be prevented?

In the old days it was very easy for closed loop systems to go crazy. The trick with steppers is proper setup and leaving some margin so that the occasional rough spot doesn't stall the motors. As for crashes it really dones't matter if an open loop stepper system or a servo based system crashes, in either case you make a mess of things and have to start over.
[quote]
4.If there are other brands you would recommend please point me there. I liked the price point and positive reviews of cnc router parts, but havent bought anything yet.
[/qoute]
For a business with a budget of $10'000 I'd most certainly would look on the used equipment market. Buy used buy more!!!! It is better if the used equipment you buy still has support from the manufacture, if not DIY controllers handling 3 axis are pretty easy.

Some of the low end kits amount to great rip offs if you want my opinion on that. They charge a lot of money for a few extrusions cut to length. So be careful when shopping in this market segment.

Thank you for your help. Wanted a cnc for to long to mess up when I finally get one.

One thing to consider is that a large router in say your 10 x 5 size take sup a lot of room in the shop, plus it makes a lot of noise. Depending upon the design of the gantry you will need clearance all around the machine, especially on a 5 foot wide machine. This can mean at a minimal a space of 14 x 9 feet and that is tight, too tight really to handle full sheet goods. So from a shop layout perspective you may need to add an extension onto your shop just to accommodate a machine this size. Either that or a number of other machines get sold off.

[ger21]

The biggest problem with a 7518 is the poor speed control. When you increase the load, they slow down for a second or two, then speed up. If the laod is constantly varying, then the speed will be constantly ramping up and down.

You can buy a 3HP (2.2KW) spindle and VFD from Ebay for about $325.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-BEARIN...ed+spindl.TRS0


1). You'd need a post processor to output Mach3 compatible g-code that will run on your machine. You may need additional modules to even be able toi export g-code. Do you have the screen to machine options?

2). In most cases, yes. Depending on the complexity of the parts. You can probably expect on average to cut 3-5 sheets/hour.

3) Machines lose steps when you try to run them faster than they are capable of. A properly set up open loop stepper machine should not lose steps. 99% of the hundred of users here run open loop machines, mostly without issues.

4) No, you likely won't find anything in this price range, except for chines machine, like this.
https://www.automationtechnologiesin...5-cnc-machine/

[TTalma]

As Wizard said look at used. You will spend a lot of time assembling and getting the CNCRP machine up and running. I think they are good machines but they are not meant for a commercial shop. With a used commercial machine you can skip the assembly part, and end up with a welded frame heavy rails, etc.

In your price range you could find a good machine with a tool changer. I have a friend with a commercial shop. They make cabinetry primarily. He has 2 full time employees running the machine. basically feeding it plywood and pulling the cut parts. He said it's his best employee, never complains, it's healthcare is cheap, is willing to work late, weekends, and holidays.

He is expanding and planning to upgrade his CNC, he said he would never consider a machine without an ATC, and his current machine has a 12hp spindle, which he said is big enough to cut 3/4" ply in a single pass.

[wizard]

As Wizard said look at used. You will spend a lot of time assembling and getting the CNCRP machine up and running. I think they are good machines but they are not meant for a commercial shop. With a used commercial machine you can skip the assembly part, and end up with a welded frame heavy rails, etc.

It does take a bit of looking but considering the budget available here, buying used could have a big pay off.

In your price range you could find a good machine with a tool changer. I have a friend with a commercial shop. They make cabinetry primarily. He has 2 full time employees running the machine. basically feeding it plywood and pulling the cut parts. He said it's his best employee, never complains, it's healthcare is cheap, is willing to work late, weekends, and holidays.

While every shop is different, a CNC machine can quickly become the most important machine in the shop. This especially if it is capable of handling a wide range of tasks. Of course the flip side is also possible where working a new tool into an old work flow can be a problem. In any event the budget here should allow for a decent used machine, it might take a bit of shopping around but they do pop up regularly. Buying used you can often get the machine for 1/3rd the new cost, so you might find a deal on a $30,000 machine.

He is expanding and planning to upgrade his CNC, he said he would never consider a machine without an ATC, and his current machine has a 12hp spindle, which he said is big enough to cut 3/4" ply in a single pass.

The only issue you run into with used is the potential for maintenance items to come up. If one is willing to build a DIY machine they maintenance issues shouldn't be a problem. Given that don't buy blind, always inspect the machine!!

[Aerojunkie]

First and foremost......huge thank you guys for the information. I have a feeling I was looking to buy into a dead end before. After reading these and searching a few other forums I have revamped my original ideas in my first post.

1. No router motor, going with a spindle instead.
2. I am looking at the used market and made a couple phone calls to a few machinery dealers I have dealt with over the years. Just depends on the machine condition for the price. I dont mind a few parts if the deal is good. It does have to run on 30hp phase converter so that limits a little bit.
3. Im looking in the $25,000 range now.
4. I have looked at the shopbot alphas for new machines. Seems to be able to handle what I want now and with room to grow into it and add to it. Im just a 2 man shop at the moment, but not against growing it.
5. I want to feed as much of my cabinet parts to it as possible, makes the efficiency increase bigger. Instead of just using it for a few items and cutting the bulk of things on my panel saw.

[ger21]

Look at Camaster in addition to Shopbot. A lot more machine for the money.