Will new tariffs affect our hobby?


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    Default Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    I don't want this thread to get political. But i'm gathering parts for a large table. Just want to know if any of you think or better yet know, if the pending tariffs will impact CNC.

    Thanks

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    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    If you are talking about stuff from Ebay, my guess would be probably not.

    But see pages 34-36 of this list of items, and you'll see cnc and milling machines are included. So if you are buying a new chinese machine, then yes, you'd probably pay more.
    https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...esentative.pdf

    Gerry

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    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

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    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    I'm expecting mixed results. Consider that many people are buying from US manufactures such as Gecko, 80/20, Mitsumi and so on. Often the desire to get the cheapest isn't always rational in the long run so it actually might be good for the hobby. I would expect price increases for linear bearing solutions though as the Chinese parts seem to be especially predatory.

    Last edited by ger21; 04-05-2018 at 07:37 AM.


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    Default Re: Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    I'm a believer in competition. The Chinese keep American companies on their toes and forces them to provide a higher quality products. Made in USA...I have bought a whole lot of junk made in the USA. The Chinese stole our jobs? Laugh out loud. I'm an American employer, and I replace people with machinery as much as possible. The government here gives you every incentive to get rid of as many people as possible and replace them with machines with all their regulatory nonsense.



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    Gold Member handlewanker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    One thing a lot of people don't realise.......when a tariff is applied who gets the extra money from the "updated" imports?

    That part....... as much as 20% ........goes to fund the political machine that you voted for or didn't vote for...... it certainly won't be handed back down to the manufacturers who make all the home goods you are now encouraged to buy.......if that isn't a licence to print money I don't know what is.

    Eventually the inflated price increase will become a normal event and the foreign goods will still be bought because the home market can't supply as it isn't established yet.....it will take a lot more years for the infrastructure to get into top gear but by then the foreign market will just go on as usual.

    I cannot see any political machine handing out money...... (read that as redistributing)....... to all those who ascribe to be a born again manufacturer but don't make the grade for quality so will not get sales to stay in business.

    If the infrastructure that once made the goods has died, then closing the door after the horse has bolted won't revive it to it's former glory.....that is a political scam that everyone will pay for.....if you don't think this is true.....ask where the money has gone after you've paid it.

    There will be no money handout.......the manufacturers or those that want to be the new age manufacturers will now have to stand shoulder to shoulder with the foreign manufactures and compete only with that high priced item called quality, and that is a word that retailers inject to make sales.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by bgymr View Post
    I don't want this thread to get political. But i'm gathering parts for a large table. Just want to know if any of you think or better yet know, if the pending tariffs will impact CNC.

    Thanks

    I started buying some of the aluminum and steel plates I needed ahead of time just in case. If you know you need parts now then why not buy them before any tariffs have a chance to take effect? In future... who knows....

    I personally don't care what happens with the price of Chinese CNC machines but I agree with Lazyman about the need for competition for keep American vendors honest.

    I don't agree with the point about American employment legislation being an incentive to replace people with machines. America has the least regulations to protect employee rights out of all the industrialized nations. American employees have very few in any rights or legal protections. I lived in Europe for a number of years and employees there have far more rights and legal protections. It's far harder to fire people without cause and yet, people still get hired as needed, just like here.

    The reality is that, increasing profit is all the incentive any employer has ever needed to replace man with machine.

    I think it is the dominance of large corporations that has destroyed the middle class. Just think how many middle class small business owners are replaced by minimum wage jobs by every Walmart store... large companies are also the ones who send jobs to low cost countries. I used to work in outsourcing and we had no small or medium sized clients. It was all Walmarts and Citi sized clients.

    I think (and hope) that the progressive emergence of affordable CNC machines will be a path to the re-emergence of the cottage industries and a return of the middle classes in America. It is getting easier for people with limited skills and funds to start niche manufacturing businesses thanks to CNC technology. I think it would be a real shame if the government got in the way by making it harder (and more expensive) for people to buy low cost Chinese CNC machines or the raw materials needed to build their own.

    Also, automation technologies like CNC take away some of China's advantage because low wage costs are less of a factor... basically, CNC machines are awesome and will save the world!



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    Gold Member handlewanker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    LOL.....CNC machines ARE the cause of your country's demise......how do you think the Chinese make their products so cheap........with highly paid skilled labour working CNC machines???......highly skilled labour is not at the controls of CNC machines that were designed to replace the Human element.

    Like I said, it's a case of closing the door after the horse has bolted.......no 20% tariff is going to make the good old days come back again......you've climbed too far up the affluence ladder to go back to the bottom again and re-invent yourselves.

    America can of course shut it's doors to the World and trade internally with the blessing of government incentives to make it pay.....that would mean diversifying your product manufacturing to supply the home market in exchange for what you need from the home market without worrying that the dollar is not buying Chinese goods at high tariff prices if any.

    America has vast natural resources and is not at the mercy of the World like Japan or UK which rely on converting raw material imports to finished product exports to earn a dollar or so for their daily bread.

    Forget tariff B/S.....If the POTUS put a ban on all products currently imported that can be supplied and made in the home market,,,,,,for the home market, then that would be a significant step in the re-inventing process like no other.

    BTW.......the USA can do it but the people won't pay the price that's asked.......about time they were told to pay up or go without......with an infighting political machine as convoluted as the USA one, it ain't gonna happen.
    Ian.



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    Gold Member daniellyall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    Ian its good for us.

    There is a small ground swell in the US around people and companies future proofing there future by bring in a upskill program and paying their workers on there brains and what they can do, not just haveing button pushers some of these companies are giving big discounts on their products so they can have a good customer base moving forward.

    And there's a few that have workers all around the world working for them from their desk at home in there country.

    Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    Being Disabled is OK CNC is For fuN


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    Gold Member dertsap's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    I've said this many times before , China's growth was handed to them by the manufacturers . I've been seeing the saying ' China stole our work " for years now . To many companies had it too good for too long and they were able to pick and chose their work . Take a look at forum posts from back around 2005 and see how many companies refused to run any steel jobs on their machines because those types of materials were too hard on their equipment and would wear everything out much sooner than running aluminum . China wasn't much of a factor around those times .
    the problem was that lots of companies needed steel parts made , and they had to go somewhere else to have them made . In the end we ended up with companies who went to China to get their steel parts made , guess what followed , Aluminum jobs .
    I watched a 2 yr period where our jobs were diminishing , all of them going straight to China . The quality was piss poor but they were able to get their parts made at a fractoin of the cost of doing it here .

    The boss of the company I worked for at the time said enough was enough and he was no longer going to fight against every other hungry shop to bring in low paying work . Instead he decided to go directly after the work that no one else wanted to do . Low count , high pay , miserable to work with materials or parts in general . The payout was huge , and that shop grew in size at a rapid pace . They brought in a lot of big machinery and top of the line tooling in order to keep up to the work flow , we could still barely keep up . Everyone on the machines had to be top skill , otherwise $%^ happens fast . They grew a lot in the time that I was there and their expansion since the time that I left has been immense .
    The re-investment and expansion of this particular shop isn't a whole lot different from how China was able to expand their economy , They took the work that no one else wanted to do and ran with it .

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Will new tariffs affect our hobby?-china-gif  
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    Default Re: Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    Lol I agree at, "china stole our jobs" nonsense. I'm a small American employer and machines stole your jobs. I replace as many people as I can with machines because some people can be downright useless, and machines are reliable and cheaper. Not to mention, the government keeps pushing their bureaucracy and regulations on us giving us every incentive to replace people with machines as much as possible. It's do or die. Increasing tariffs on Chinese goods will just decrease competition and allow American companies to get away with making junk.



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    Default Re: Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    I don't see any pending steel tariffs yet... Russia supplies most of the USA off-shore steel.. What I do see is a bunch of USA steel suppliers jacking up prices in a greedy knee jerk reaction.

    I do know this.. I have a product that I was forced to patent just to keep China from manufacturing, importing and selling it in the USA for less than I could by the materials for in the USA.. That's just plain BS! Tariffs with China should have been equalized on a fair basis 30 years ago.. That was never done although talked about many times..



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    Gold Member handlewanker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

    Well, it's a flat Earth scenario we're seeing and by that I mean if it's cheaper next door that is where my money will go.....not home and not to my compatriots who are struggling to survive.

    Since the beginning of time nobody and his dog has supported another nobody just because they can't get their act together.

    Anyone can make an item for a dollar but it takes brains and expertise to make a million for ten cents each........and that is where we're at.....it's the Woolworths/Rolls Royce principle when it comes to making money.

    At the same time you need to have an anticipated market to allow you to tool up and make large scale production that will ensure the market swings in your direction.

    A typical case is a firm that makes a product but because they failed to keep up with production needs they fell down on the supply part and went to the wall when someone else bought them out and did the necessary infrastructure upgrade.

    I think since the end of the war of '45, the US open door policy has ensured that anyone can suck their life blood without having to look back or worry about the effects.

    I doubt whether getting work that nobody else wants to do is the answer to getting a country up from the floor and revitalising it's industry that has failed to keep the skill level sufficient to make it work.

    How do you encourage a person starting out in the work force to go into an industry that is not going anywhere this side of the century........the structure of a labour force to make high volume production does not occur overnight just because a business becomes up and running overnight.

    You have to start back down at the bottom once again with new horses being bred behind closed doors.
    Ian.



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Will new tariffs affect our hobby?

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