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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by john-100 View Post
    if you must connect multiple normally closed NPN sensors to one BOB input this is one possible solution



    John
    Hmm that seems a little complicated but I guess I understand the wiring and the components.

    I was thinking something like this, but since none suggested it, I guess it cannot work like this?


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkness View Post
    you should see 12.xx on the meter with red meter probe connected to brown and black meter probe connected to blue wires of the sensor . when the axis is off the home position and led lit you should measure less than 1 volt across GND and PIN 12 terminal on the BOB this should measure the same for all sensors and there associated input pin
    Great. I will test it next time.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-npn-sensor-one-bob-input-jpg  


  2. #42
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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    another NPN sensor adaptor

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-74hc05-adaptor-jpg


    you can not connect NPN sensors in series

    but you can connect normally closed PNP sensors

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-pnp-sensor-one-bob-input-jpg

    John



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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    Cool.
    I could also just use simple NC switches as limits and be done with it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by coherent View Post
    If this is already standard knowledge then my apologies... Standard proximity switch wiring is brown V+, blue V- & black signal It depends on your sensor voltage ratings but for example if you have a NPN NO sensor that operates on 10 to 30 volts and are using 12v to the brown V+ and have connected the blue to V-/ground... the black signal wire will output 12v (or whatever 10v-30v voltage is supplied to the V+ brown wire) when no signal is detected. When the sensor detects metal the signal wire voltage drops to zero (or close to zero). Most breakout boards are opto isolated from the parallel port which is their typical purpose and have built in pull up/pull down resistors for the input pin signals but, if your breakout board cannot accept a signal voltage greater than 5v at it's input pins, you need to use resistors and make a simple voltage divider to drop the signal wire voltage to 5 volts. Some breakout boards can accept 12v or 24v at the input pins which make things easier. The reason the sensors don't all use lower voltages is the higher voltages are less susceptible to noise causing signal issues. If your sensors have a resistor built in them, then you need to measure the built in resistors resistance and then add the appropriate size resistors so that combined the total drops the voltage to the appropriate voltage that your BoB can accept at the input pins.

    Man you're right on this. I got roko sn04 npn-no 5-36v rating, the sensor alway out 5v pull from ess-c25, and the signal wire to Bob won't engage, because sensor 5v doesn't drop continue open... really frustrating till now I still haven't figure out yet, if you have a chance please help me. Or I might have to buy pnp-NC sensor.



  5. #45
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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    is this how you connected the sensor and ESS-C25 ?

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-npn-sensor-plus-c25r3-input-jpg

    what is supply voltage connected to the SN04N ?

    and what is the value of the pullup resistor you used ?


    John



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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    I using the meanwell 5v/2.0a, to power the ess, and sn04N pull the power straight from ess-c25 bob terminal keep it simple I think it all 5v.
    I brought the resistors kit from amazon it have majority of size, because I don't know resistor ohm laws =( no club about electronic stuff, really need some training =D
    as you see in the image my sn04n always powered led without touch the metal plate. Im frustrated almost two weeks now, i can't solve the problem.


    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-20181108_202627-jpg
    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-20181108_202640-jpg
    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-20181102_191248-jpg
    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-20170827_201210-jpg
    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-20181102_191226-jpg



  7. #47
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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    after a quick search for the SN04N data sheet I only found one in chinese !!

    the one thing I could read is the sensors supply should be between 10 to 30V

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-sn04n-data-sheet-jpg

    from your photos I can not see what pull up resistor you have fitted (if any)

    if your sensors do work with a 5V supply
    I would reduce the pullup to 100ohms

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-5v-npn-sensor-plus-motion-controller-jpg



    John



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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    I check all 3wires from sn04-n with multimeter to find internal ohm,
    brown (+vdc) & blue (gnd) = 13.27k ohm
    black (input) & blue (gnd) = 23.2k ohm
    brown (-vdc) & black (input)= 9.95k ohm
    ================================================== ========================

    HOLLY SH thank you man. after I add 100 ohm to Brown and black wires sensor home switch work... it triggered. I went check the current between blue and black with sensor triggered got 110vdc why ?
    how do you know 100ohm can i make the trigger volt lower?


    Lmao I ordered 3x pnp-nc other day before I checked this reply, I didn't know the one I got right now it actually still work, after you help me. man I really appreciated for the help bro. I guess pnp-nc for limit when it arrive.

    Last edited by Nleo22; 11-10-2018 at 08:15 PM.


  9. #49
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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    not knowing the part numbers of the LED indicator and opto-isolator on the ESS board
    when the sensor is connected directly to the ESS
    I made the assumpion the voltage at the junction of the LED indicator and 330 ohm resistor will not change from the 2.69V I calculated earlier

    the 100 ohm resistor limits the current through the SN04N when it grounds the ESS input

    when the SN04N output is off the current flowing into the ESS board will drop about 0.55V across the 100 ohm resistor
    so the ESS input will be at about 4.455V.


    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-5v-npn-senso-100ohm-pullup-r-plus


    a quick calculation shows that when the SN04N sensor powered from a +5v supply
    a 100 ohm pull up resistor will also work when connected to a C25 board's input

    ( a 1000 ohm resistor will also work but using a 100 ohm resistor has the advantage of reducing the
    input impedance helping to reduce the effects of electrical noise picked up by the sensors wiring )

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-5v-npn-sensor-plus-c25r3-input-jpg

    PS
    NPN open collector outputs can only pass current to ground and not supply current from the sensors positive supply

    ( sensors with PNP outputs can supply current from the positive supply but are not able to switch to the output to ground )

    john

    Last edited by john-100; 11-11-2018 at 08:04 AM. Reason: add PS NPN open collector outputs verse PNP opec collector outputs outputs


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    Default

    1# which software or app that you use to calculate for the right ohm?

    2# I also ordered this pnp-NC
    http://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=381489388907&t=1527063981000&tid=10&category=57520&seller=mdflyelectronics&excSoj=1&excTrk=1&lsite=0&ittenable=false&domain=ebay.com&descgauge=1&cspheader=1&oneClk=1&secureDesc=0

    Which application good for homing npn-no, limit pnp-nc?
    Or homing pnp-NC, limit npn-no?



  11. #51
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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    2)
    after reparing various video , balanced audio and multiway camera cables experiance tells me
    the odds are higher that a sensor wiring fault will be a wire going open circuit

    so I would use a sensor with a normally closed output -
    the problem with N/O outputs you don't know a wire has broken and the control is not going to see the switch close

    in your case with the sensor connected to an ESS or C25 input
    use a sensor with an open collector PNP output

    when a N/C PNP sensor is connected to a 5V supply you don't need a resistor connect the ESS input to work
    ( but a 100 ohm resistor between the PNP output and the ESS input will limit the fault current if the ESS input is shorted to ground )



    you may find when connecting a N/C PNP sensor to the C25 input
    a 100 ohm pull down resistor may be needed between the ground and C25 input to reduce the input impedance and make the C25 less sensitive to stay pickup

    ( if you have a 100 ohm resistor in series withe the sensor output to limit the current if the output is shorted to ground
    then the pull down resistor if fitted will need to be about 270 ohms to ensure the 74HC14 input is at more than 3.5V when the sensor output is at +5V)


    1)

    I did not use any app to find the correct value of pull up resistor in my original diagrams

    using a mixture of experiance and reverse engineering the ESS and C25 inputs

    going by the chinese data I found for the SN04N sensor
    the maximum current the sensor can sink to ground is 200mA

    with a 100 ohm pull up resistor the SN04N sensor is going to sink 50mA that flows from +5V when the sensor NPN output is switched on
    the 100 ohm resistor only dissipates 0.25W

    the 74HC14 IC on the C25 board is a CMOS IC has a high impedance - the low impedance pullup resistor (100 ohms)
    will help to reduce any stray voltages picked up by the sensor wiring

    as an alternative
    using a 1800 ohm pullup will form a potential divider with the 4700 ohm resistor shown in the C25 manual

    result is the 74HC14 input will be at 3.6V when your sensors NPN open collector transistor is off

    I used 0 to 30% of the 5V supply as a valid low level logic = 0 to 1.5V
    and 70% to 100% of the 5V supply a a valid high logic level = 3.5 to 5V




    looking at the SN04N sensor being connected to the ESS input
    the diagram in the manual indicates 7mA will flow into the input through the 330 ohm resistor , passing through the LED indicator and the opto-isolators input LED

    using ohms law, 7mA through the 330 ohm resistor gives you 2,31V across the resistor
    subtracting 2.31 from 5V gives you across the two leds 2..69V

    adding the 100 ohm pull up resistor to 330 ohms gives you 430 ohms

    I assumed the volt drop across thetwo LED's will remain at 2,31V
    so dividing 2.69V by 430 gives you 6.25mA through the LED's instead of 7mA
    I do not think a reduction in current of about 10% will stop the circuit from working

    John

    Last edited by john-100; 11-11-2018 at 12:05 PM. Reason: correct some typos and recalculate for 1800 ohm C25 pullup


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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    pnp-NC arrived tested it seem work without 100ohm.
    how do I wire in series for limit switch.



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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    Hi Nleo22

    this morning I have been looking at the sensors sold by CNC4PC

    the wiring examples for theC10 BOB and A60 PNP NC sensor

    shows sensors wired in series with the first sensor powered from +5V and
    its black output wire connected to the brown + supply of the next

    the last sensors black output goes to the BOB input with a pull down resistor

    all blue - supply wires are connected to BOB's GND


    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-nc-pnp-a60_c10a-jpg

    the C25 input is like the C10 with the jumper set to pull down

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-c25r3-input-jpg


    this is the inverse of what happens with sensors with N/O NPN outputs
    NPN outputs can only sink current to ground and not source current from the positive supply like
    sensors with PNP outputs



    John

    Last edited by john-100; 11-21-2018 at 07:46 AM.


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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    Hi

    I am trying to install proximity switches to my CNC and I have the same breakout board as the one in the pictures. JK02-M xx. My proximity switches are NPN normally closed, the wiring on them states the signal wire connects to positive, not ground has the normally open ones are. My question is how do I connect the Prox sensors to the limit switches?

    Many thanks Gary



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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    Hi Gary

    this note -

    "My proximity switches are NPN normally closed, the wiring on them states the signal wire connects to positive,"

    does not read correctly for NPN proximity switches

    can you give more information

    whats the part number of your proximity switches

    open collector NPN switches can only ground the output when closed

    open collector PNP switches outputs are connected to the positive supply when closed

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-npn-v-pnp-proximity-switches-jpg

    John



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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    Hi John

    Thanks for getting back so quickly. Here are some picture from the label on my proximity switches.
    Gary
    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-img_0632-jpg. Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-img_0634-jpg
    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-img_0633-jpg

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-img_0635-jpg   Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-img_0633-jpg   Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-img_0634-jpg   Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-img_0632-jpg  



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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    Hi Gary

    looking at the first photo
    the diagram on the proximity switch is clearly a NPN switch

    a quick web search for LJC18A3-B-ZAX confirmed the switch is a Normaly Closed NPN proximity switch


    switch data

    Method of detection: Capacitive
    Output: 3 wires, normally closed,NPN
    Shape: diameter 18 mm cylinder
    Detection distance: 10mm
    Operating voltage: 6-36V DC

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-ljc18a3-b-zax-png



    If you have this BOB I reverse engineered while fault finding

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-ebay-cnc-bob-2-jpg

    you can connect a single LJC18A3-B-ZAX to a BOB input like this

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-connecting-ljc18a3-b-zax-cnc-bob-jpg

    this is OK when you have one home switch on each axis

    if your want to have two LJC18A3-B-ZAX limit switches per axis
    you will need an extra circuit to interface multiple switches to a BOB input

    with this BOB its easier with PNP proximity switches

    John



  18. #58
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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    If you have this BOB

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-chinese-bob-jpg


    you can use the wiring diagram from post 4 to power the LJC18A3-B-ZAX limit switches from 12V

    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-proximity-sensor-wiring-jpg

    note - this only work with one switch connected to each input without adding
    additional components

    how many switches do you need to connect to a BOB input ?

    John

    PS

    diagram from post 15 with wire colours changed to agree with proximity switch wires

    Proximity Sensor Wiring v3
    Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.-proximity-sensor-wiring-v3-jpg

    Last edited by john-100; 10-23-2019 at 07:08 AM. Reason: add PS


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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    I've probably gone through more than a few reams of papers on this subject and seen dozens of hours of videos and I'm still left with the Basic Question of. What would be the Correct Resistor to use between the Brown V+ wire and the Black Load Sensing wire of my DC Capacitive Sensors LJC18A3-B-Z/AX 6-36V????????
    They are rated for 6-36V DC and I want to use them with my Gecko G540 and either it's 48V Power Supply or a 24VDC Wall Wart.

    Is there anyone here who can point me in the Right Direction with some Basic Instructions???????????



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    Default Re: Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

    1 kOhm worked for me.

    BryggaCNC.com


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Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.

Proximity Sensor Wiring Issue? Help needed.