Wood Base Design Question / Poll


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    Default Wood Base Design Question / Poll

    I have seen some really great wood base designs, and even thou I think I would really prefer to build a steel base for my 5 x 8 Evolution machine, I think doing the steel is probably not within my skill set right now, so wood it's going to be. I moved and cleaned the section of my shop out where it's going to be built and I think the 5 x 8 will fit OK, as long as I build enough storage under it for a bunch of tools, so here is my question to the forum?


    What design for a wood base do the forum members think is stronger or better suited for the Evolution? I know there are a lot of choices, I also know I always over build things so either way it will be VERY strong.


    1. To build a torsion box assembly for the base maybe out of 2 x 4's sandwiched between 3/4 plywood - this will have the 4 levelers on each side. Also a torsion box assembly for the top - that the frame/rails for the CNC will be mounted to. Then in between the two torsion boxes I would build a set of 4 or 6 cabinets out of 3/4 ply or baltic birch. Each one being "over" built to support the weight. Then have shelves and/or pull out slides, drawers built into them.


    2. Build a post & beam style base with something like 4 x 4's at the corners and maybe 1 or 2 more spaced between them - total of 6 or 8 posts. Then have cross beams at the top and bottom, with the levelers under the 4 x 4's. I've even seen them built using sandwiched/laminated 3/4 ply (Kronos Robotics wood stand/base). Their's is even a double post & beam style design set up for a 50 x 50 machine and then just doubled for the 50 x 102 machine. Then build cabinet/shelf sections to be placed inside the post & beam structure.


    Anyone want to maybe give me their input as to what would be stronger, or maybe better suited for the base. Or even give me better storage after all the electronics and wiring are installed and utilized since I've never done this and don't know what to expect. I've seen and liked both designs. I do plan on installing locking casters at the corners under the base with adjustable levelers outboard around the perimeter - maybe 6 or 8 total.


    Thanks,
    Ed

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    Default Re: Wood Base Design Question / Poll

    I think the torsion box will be flatter, and more stable, if built properly. Don't use 2x4's for the frame, though. Just use 3/4" plywood. It'll be more stable.

    I'd hold off building the cabinets if possible, until you know how much room you will need for your control box, which can take up a lot more space than you think. I'd also plan on putting the PC in a sealed cabinet, if not the control box itself, as dust is always an issue.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Wood Base Design Question / Poll

    Im not sure i follow your descriptions but i have to agree with the above post, you don't want to use dimensional lumber for a torsion box machine base/table. You will want as much precision as possible and you want that built in at the beginning. Stability is a real issue too. Frankly the same applies to a post and beam frame, you will benefit from more stable laminates.

    In any event I'm not certain i can help to much at the moment as I'm on a slow cell phone and frankly don't completely follow your descriptions. As long as the router design is reasonable stiff and robust there is nothing wrong with a wood based design. One can even make a router out of grass (Bamboo) and get good results in wood. The real trick is to select a design that meets your expectations.

    So it certainly helps the forum to tell use what you expect to make with this machine. It is like building a machine for boat building or violin making. Both would be routers but vastly different machines.

    One last thing here people often dismiss steel or aluminum due to the lack of experience, while i can understand to an extent experience will never happen if you never use the materials. Even with a mostly wood machine steel and aluminum parts can be very useful in a build.

    I might go further and suggest that a metal beam can make sense on a gantry even if the base of the machine is mostly wood. The reason here is that a wood gantry has to be fairly robust even on a machine focused on wood working. That requires a lot of wood and a whole lot of time to build. A suitable steel or aluminum beam wont have a significant cost differential especially if you can find used materials, it might even be cheaper compared to a good grade of plywood like Appleply. I haven't purchased Birch plywood recently but it has never been cheap per sheet. By the time you have a completed beam you will likely go though the entire sheet of plywood. Im not saying ignore wood foe the gantry just look closely at what the final costs will be. Especially to get equal performance.

    As for a steel beam in the case of a gantry beam in many cases the only machining you will do is to drill holes in the beam and maybe tap some of those holes. There really isnt a big learning curve at that level. More elaborate structures on other parts of the machine may be a different story but even here you are doing the same thing as in many wood working projects.

    As for your electrical controls i strongly suggest buying an electrical enclosure cabinet designed for the purpose. Make it bigger than you think is required as crowded control panels suck. Size it to fit under the machines table and ideally be 12" off the floor. An alternative would be a free standing panel or even a wall mount. As for other storage under the table that is up to you and the frames design but don't store anything under the machine that can't handle dust. Frankly im not sure where the storage question came from as that generally morphs over time anyways.

    If you are looking fir a set of plans i think you are out of luck except for a few pay to see plans on the net. One of the reasons so many DIY these routers is to adapt the concept to their specific needs. For someone that hasn't built a machine before that can be a big hurdle to jump. The only other option i can offer here is to consider the many workbench plans out there and to put a table top machine on top of the bench. Otherwise build your own with the ideas in the back of your head of robustness and rigidity.



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    Default Re: Wood Base Design Question / Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    Im not sure i follow your descriptions but i have to agree with the above post, you don't want to use dimensional lumber for a torsion box machine base/table. You will want as much precision as possible and you want that built in at the beginning. Stability is a real issue too. Frankly the same applies to a post and beam frame, you will benefit from more stable laminates.

    In any event I'm not certain i can help to much at the moment as I'm on a slow cell phone and frankly don't completely follow your descriptions. As long as the router design is reasonable stiff and robust there is nothing wrong with a wood based design. One can even make a router out of grass (Bamboo) and get good results in wood. The real trick is to select a design that meets your expectations.

    So it certainly helps the forum to tell use what you expect to make with this machine. It is like building a machine for boat building or violin making. Both would be routers but vastly different machines.

    One last thing here people often dismiss steel or aluminum due to the lack of experience, while i can understand to an extent experience will never happen if you never use the materials. Even with a mostly wood machine steel and aluminum parts can be very useful in a build.

    I might go further and suggest that a metal beam can make sense on a gantry even if the base of the machine is mostly wood. The reason here is that a wood gantry has to be fairly robust even on a machine focused on wood working. That requires a lot of wood and a whole lot of time to build. A suitable steel or aluminum beam wont have a significant cost differential especially if you can find used materials, it might even be cheaper compared to a good grade of plywood like Appleply. I haven't purchased Birch plywood recently but it has never been cheap per sheet. By the time you have a completed beam you will likely go though the entire sheet of plywood. Im not saying ignore wood foe the gantry just look closely at what the final costs will be. Especially to get equal performance.

    As for a steel beam in the case of a gantry beam in many cases the only machining you will do is to drill holes in the beam and maybe tap some of those holes. There really isnt a big learning curve at that level. More elaborate structures on other parts of the machine may be a different story but even here you are doing the same thing as in many wood working projects.

    As for your electrical controls i strongly suggest buying an electrical enclosure cabinet designed for the purpose. Make it bigger than you think is required as crowded control panels suck. Size it to fit under the machines table and ideally be 12" off the floor. An alternative would be a free standing panel or even a wall mount. As for other storage under the table that is up to you and the frames design but don't store anything under the machine that can't handle dust. Frankly im not sure where the storage question came from as that generally morphs over time anyways.

    If you are looking fir a set of plans i think you are out of luck except for a few pay to see plans on the net. One of the reasons so many DIY these routers is to adapt the concept to their specific needs. For someone that hasn't built a machine before that can be a big hurdle to jump. The only other option i can offer here is to consider the many workbench plans out there and to put a table top machine on top of the bench. Otherwise build your own with the ideas in the back of your head of robustness and rigidity.
    I will be building either a Joe's Evolution 1.0/2.0 or Kronos KRMx2 - I haven't decided and to be honest it might be a combination of the two designs. I already have the plans and forum membership for both. The rails and gantry are going to be 8020 aluminum & steel and rack & pinion. Everything from the base up is going to be mostly metal and just like the plans spec out. My decisions at this point are mostly what to place the machine on top of.

    The post & beam is mostly just 4 x 4's or laminated 3/4 ply to mimic 4 x 4's standing vertically and then bolted together to make a big frame/base. 6 or 8 posts with cross members and bracing and then lay out shelves under it, laying on top of the cross members. The torsion box idea is just a VERY flat stable torsion box base - say in the 4 x 8 ft range about 5 or 6 inches thick with another of the exact same on the top with a bank of cabinets between the two and supporting the top.

    I plan on using the CNC to build cabinets out of Baltic Birch ply - that is my main need. Also using it to cut some hardwoods for trim pieces. I would also like to use it to also cut canoe, kayak and small boat pieces out of Okume ply. If I'm able to use it for other purposes then all the better. Maybe signs and small item/trinket box building. So I'm not looking to use it for very precision cutting, but would like it to be decently accurate for the cabinet work at my small business.



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    Default Re: Wood Base Design Question / Poll

    Can anyone direct me to a good set of plans/pictures/diagrams for a steel base? Maybe something out of the ordinary from either Joe's or Kronos's to get some ideas from. I'm still not convinced I want a wood base so maybe I need to look at and price some other things out. I really need storage under it and I'm planning on a 4 or 5 x 8 build.



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    Default Re: Wood Base Design Question / Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by SailRat View Post
    I have seen some really great wood base designs, and even thou I think I would really prefer to build a steel base for my 5 x 8 Evolution machine, I think doing the steel is probably not within my skill set right now, so wood it's going to be. I moved and cleaned the section of my shop out where it's going to be built and I think the 5 x 8 will fit OK, as long as I build enough storage under it for a bunch of tools, so here is my question to the forum?


    What design for a wood base do the forum members think is stronger or better suited for the Evolution? I know there are a lot of choices, I also know I always over build things so either way it will be VERY strong.


    1. To build a torsion box assembly for the base maybe out of 2 x 4's sandwiched between 3/4 plywood - this will have the 4 levelers on each side. Also a torsion box assembly for the top - that the frame/rails for the CNC will be mounted to. Then in between the two torsion boxes I would build a set of 4 or 6 cabinets out of 3/4 ply or baltic birch. Each one being "over" built to support the weight. Then have shelves and/or pull out slides, drawers built into them.


    2. Build a post & beam style base with something like 4 x 4's at the corners and maybe 1 or 2 more spaced between them - total of 6 or 8 posts. Then have cross beams at the top and bottom, with the levelers under the 4 x 4's. I've even seen them built using sandwiched/laminated 3/4 ply (Kronos Robotics wood stand/base). Their's is even a double post & beam style design set up for a 50 x 50 machine and then just doubled for the 50 x 102 machine. Then build cabinet/shelf sections to be placed inside the post & beam structure.


    Anyone want to maybe give me their input as to what would be stronger, or maybe better suited for the base. Or even give me better storage after all the electronics and wiring are installed and utilized since I've never done this and don't know what to expect. I've seen and liked both designs. I do plan on installing locking casters at the corners under the base with adjustable levelers outboard around the perimeter - maybe 6 or 8 total.


    Thanks,
    Ed
    I would think a torsion box top and bottom assembly is not necessary, since you can use the cabinetry as part of a large "torsion box". You would just have to add wider rails and stiles to help the open end of the cabinets from racking. Saves on wood and sheet goods too.



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Wood Base Design Question / Poll

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