Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller - Page 2


Page 2 of 121 FirstFirst 123451252102 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 2401

Thread: Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller

  1. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    621
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanLini View Post
    Super-PID closed loop speed control; This has a infra-red speed sensor pointed at the router shaft, so it measures the exact RPM of the router at all times. Then it uses a high-speed math algorithm called P.I.D. to adjust the power sent to the router, to keep the router spinning at the RPM you wanted. And it has an accurate tacho so you can set a chosen RPM based on speeds/feeds tables as people need for professional production.
    ...
    So, if I understand you correctly the PID creates low adjustable RPM with same power/torque?

    Does that mean a traditional speed controller just cuts the power to the router to control the speed?

    Adam,



  2. #22
    Member ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Shelby Township
    Posts
    35538
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanLini View Post

    ger21- Sure it should not be a problem. You would need one relay to changeover the router power (2 wires) and another relay to changeover the sensor (2 wires). Or, you could just have 2 plugs and plug in the router power and the spindle sensor for the desired router. I just have an AC mains line plug on mine, and a 3pin small connector for the sensor.

    It seems an unusual request, I'm guessing you have 2 routers set up and need to use both regularly?
    I'm building a router with 2 independent spindles. Two fixed speed routers and the Super PID would be about the same price as the two VS routers I was looking at.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  3. #23
    Member Boltz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    US
    Posts
    275
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default pid code

    Hey Roman, I've been following you for a while and you do some really cool stuff!

    Just curious, did you code the PID algos or is there something in the public domain?

    Also, can you recommend any reading for those of us starting to climb the rather steep learning curve for PID?

    Thanks, and keep up the good work!

    -Jim Hart

    Buy my Multicam!


  4. #24
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2392
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adam_m View Post
    So, if I understand you correctly the PID creates low adjustable RPM with same power/torque?

    Does that mean a traditional speed controller just cuts the power to the router to control the speed?
    ...
    I wouldn't say the "same" power at all RPM because the router naturally has a lot more power at high RPMs. But the Super-PID will increase the power to keep the RPM the same, so you can actually do cutting at quite low RPM (which is just not possible with a standard variable speed router).

    And yes, traditional (open-loop) speed controllers just cut the power a bit and are only useful when in the router's sweet spot, ie quite high RPMs.

    Ger21- Ahah I understand now. I would go for the 2 routers+Super-PID just to get the big performance benefits.

    Boltz- Thanks for the compliemnt! And although I have put in a lot of work on open-source projects in the past (to give back to the world) and plan to still do so in the future, this particular project is a commercial one.

    I have around 200 engineer hours invested in Super-PID so far and Val (the product owner) has a few grand invested in parts, production setup and lots more to spend yet on labour and advertising etc, so we need to sell quite a few of these to break even. And of course you would understand that means we would really NOT be wanting to help anyone compete. Some things are for giving away and some things are for making a living from.

    And just while we are on the topic, this forum has specific rules about piracy of intellectual property and if anyone tries to hack/reverse engineer the Super-PID intellectual property I will be asking forum moderators to delete posts.



  5. #25
    Member ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Shelby Township
    Posts
    35538
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Will the Super-PID allow me to run a 23,000 rpm router at 30,000 rpm?

    An 11 amp router #120V is~1300watts. I'm assuming it won't be drawing the full 11 amps most of the time, so it should be fine?

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  6. #26
    Registered JeremyFisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    AU
    Posts
    15
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Will the Super-PID allow me to run a 23,000 rpm router at 30,000 rpm?
    I'm pretty sure that the top speed of AC motors depends on the physical properties of the motor, such as the number of windings in the coil, so no. You will be able to set it to 30,000 RPM but the motor will just reach its max 23,000 RPM.

    It's a bit like a light dimmer, for turning down brightness of lights. You can turn down a 100W globe to shine like a 60W globe, but if you put in a 60W globe, it can only ever shine as bright as a 60W globe, even if the dimmer is set to max.



  7. #27
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2392
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Ger21- Sorry (as JeremyFisher said) the router's max RPM won't be exceeded, provided the labeled max RPM is in fact the no-load RPM. Some router's labeled as 25000 RPM etc will run a bit faster on no-load and light cuts as the official RPM rating is when cutting wood with a cutting bit.

    Re the 11 Amp 1300W router, I have initially specced the Super-PID lower than its calculated limits. The connector, PCB traces, TRIAC etc (all the parts that carry motor current) are rated at 15 Amps or more but I have specced at around 10 Amps for now until the product has undergone significant testing over time.

    When in use, the SuperPID will generally use MUCH less than full power, and it has a power bargraph display on the LCD so you can see the power % anytime it is running. The product was designed specifically for routers up to and including 1200W or so which is a popular size.

    I'm in the final stages of product testing now with the proper PCB (up to now has just been prototype units) and it's all looking good.

    I have borrowed a video camera and if I get time today or tomorrow I'll do a youtube of the product demonstrating the low speed power!



  8. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    621
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Definitely interested in some video of the product at work at different speeds and materials..

    Adam,



  9. #29
    Gold Member davidmb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    162
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Hi Boltz,

    Have a look at Microchip Technology Inc. is a Leading Provider of Microcontroller and Analog Semiconductors, providing low-risk product development, lower total system cost and faster time to market for thousands of diverse customer applications worldwide., search for PID, they published pid algorithms for use with their range of microprocessors back in 2004, possibly much earlier, I was using pid myself back in 1995 for control of neonatal oxygen controllers.

    Here's a link to a specific doc: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/e...tes/00937a.pdf

    David
    ( never stop learning )
    http://www.steamcastings.co.uk/


  10. #30
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    149
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default ME TOO ! ! !

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanLini View Post
    The product target price was to be under $150 for the fully assembled unit, possibly it could be as low as $120 or $130 but costing is still waiting . . .
    I want one! Please put me on your email list or whatever you are doing to keep track of future customers.

    tjskjr@yahoo.com

    Thanks.
    tjskcnc



  11. #31
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2392
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Thank you tjskcnc, I'll pass that along to Val, the product should be available for sale next week. I'm sure he will announce something soon.

    The new test unit (on the commercial PCB) is working very nicely, and here's a photo of the first 3 units to go out, which should be tomorrow after I run a series of tests on them.

    They are going to Khalid, CarveOne, and Ger21 and have a couple of rough edges because they are not from a "proper" production run yet, like the heatsink brackets were just cut on the chop saw etc. But they are quality units; stainless steel screws, metal film resistors, tantalum caps, plug/socket on LCD, etc etc.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-spid_x3-jpg  


  12. #32
    Member ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Shelby Township
    Posts
    35538
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Do we need to solder the pot to the board?

    And for Mach3 control, do we not use the pot, but use the same terminals?

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  13. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    8082
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Thanks!

    I'll be looking for it to arrive. Don't worry, the rough edges won't look out of place around my shop.

    CarveOne

    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


  14. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    621
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Can't wait to hear the review from Carveone and the others...

    Adam,



  15. #35
    Member Khalid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Pakistan
    Posts
    3498
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Hi RomanLini,
    Thanks for showing the stuff and i am very excited as in coming months i have to use my Router a lot as we have community Funfair charity show in January..

    We have 220Volts here but the frequency i will tell you tomorrow...
    Thanks and Regards

    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/


  16. #36
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2392
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    The units were sent airmail today, apart from Khalid (please PM me with your address Khalid!).

    Ger21- The pot and sensor are supplied and all wired up now (but not in the photo).

    As for running the speed control from Mach3, I'm glad you wanted to test that because it's something I can't do here. The middle wire of the pot goes from 0v to 5v, and that gives speed control of 5000 to 30000 RPM. However it's not totally linear as the scale was carefully adjusted to a semi-log scale to give better "feel" of the pot. It can still be controlled from any 0v-5v analog source if Mach3 has that type of analog output.

    If the Mach3 output is 0v-10v you need to add two 10k resistors as a 2:1 voltage divider, that is easy enough. I'm not sure how mach3 can recalibrate for the semi-log scale though, I'd appreciate if anyone can offer more light on the whole process there. If you need more info I can provide a table showing pot voltage vs set RPM.

    CarveOne- When I said rough edges that's basically saying these initial units are made here in the design workshop and the overall finish is not representative of a proper production batch. But they are complete and fully functional with all the stuff that matters (as is your workshop I bet!).



  17. #37
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    8082
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanLini View Post


    CarveOne- When I said rough edges that's basically saying these initial units are made here in the design workshop and the overall finish is not representative of a proper production batch. But they are complete and fully functional with all the stuff that matters (as is your workshop I bet!).
    I was just joking with you. Everything around here has rough edges on it, including the owner. I know how engineering lab work goes as well. Been there and done that for too many years.

    CarveOne

    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


  18. #38
    Member ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Shelby Township
    Posts
    35538
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanLini View Post

    Ger21-
    As for running the speed control from Mach3, I'm glad you wanted to test that because it's something I can't do here. The middle wire of the pot goes from 0v to 5v, and that gives speed control of 5000 to 30000 RPM. However it's not totally linear as the scale was carefully adjusted to a semi-log scale to give better "feel" of the pot. It can still be controlled from any 0v-5v analog source if Mach3 has that type of analog output.
    Actually, I can't test it either. I'll need to add a parallel port and an additional board to generate the 0-5V signal. Something like this:
    DC-03 DigiSpeed GX V3 [DC-03] - US$38.00 : Homann Designs, The Preferred CNC Component supplier

    or this:
    CNC4PC

    Not sure if I have room in my box, though.

    Looks like the voltage is linear, so I'm not sure if or how Mach3 can compensate.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  19. #39
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    24216
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post

    Looks like the voltage is linear, so I'm not sure if or how Mach3 can compensate.
    Don't these BOB's that offer Mach (PWM) to VFD analogue, provide this?
    They usually offer 0-10vdc, but I believe it can be scaled in Mach just going by an Email I got some years ago from Art when I looked into making one.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


  20. #40
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    8082
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    My CNC4PC C11G breakout board has the 0-10vdc spindle speed control function on it. I'll see if I can make it work.

    Maybe future boards can have a switch or jumper to select linear (Mach3) or nonlinear (potentiometer) mode options.

    CarveOne

    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


Page 2 of 121 FirstFirst 123451252102 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller

Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller