Puma 2500LSY live tooling squeal from turret

[Silv3rDragon]

2 months ago I was not a machinist and was working as a tech in the shop when my boss said "I want you to be a machinist now", to which I was excited. Been trying to learn everything on the fly (boss knows that too) so has been a hectic, but fun, couple of months, and I will do my best to describe things with limited proper terminology.

First off, I have been trying to look around for duty cycle of stuff to know for sure as I was informed by a coworker that it is 8 hours continuous at 100% and after searching a couple manuals for a while I put that on hold. If any of you know for sure and could point to where its at or at least the book its found in would be great.

The main issue is the turret developed a squeal while using the live tooling. 2 of our straight live tools went out a couple weeks ago and we sent them off to get new bearings put in. Last week another started to squeal and after stopping and seeing coolant steam coming off from the heat, I swapped it out too. Today it started squealing again so took the tool out but bearing felt good and it was not burning hot, only quite warm to the touch so I swapped it with a tool running 500rpm instead of 5000rpm but the squeal remained. Checked a different tool spot with another tool running at 2000rpm and same thing so then tried an empty spot with no tool at all and same squeal still even as low as 1000rpm. have been running things a bit slower to get a feel for the live tooling so only been at 60-70% max load on the tools (ranging from 1/8" V bit for engraving to 5/8" end mill with helix path) and the squeal started after 3 hours of intermittent live tool use (live tools for an hour, regular turning for 20 minutes then back to live tools).

Any help with trouble shooting or disassembly tips/manuals would be very helpful. From my mechanic experience it sounds like its a shaft bearing and hoping to find the issue tomorrow so parts can be ordered or the service guys called when things open up again on Tuesday. Thank you very much for any help.

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[servtech]

2 months ago I was not a machinist and was working as a tech in the shop when my boss said "I want you to be a machinist now", to which I was excited. Been trying to learn everything on the fly (boss knows that too) so has been a hectic, but fun, couple of months, and I will do my best to describe things with limited proper terminology.

First off, I have been trying to look around for duty cycle of stuff to know for sure as I was informed by a coworker that it is 8 hours continuous at 100% and after searching a couple manuals for a while I put that on hold. If any of you know for sure and could point to where its at or at least the book its found in would be great.

The main issue is the turret developed a squeal while using the live tooling. 2 of our straight live tools went out a couple weeks ago and we sent them off to get new bearings put in. Last week another started to squeal and after stopping and seeing coolant steam coming off from the heat, I swapped it out too. Today it started squealing again so took the tool out but bearing felt good and it was not burning hot, only quite warm to the touch so I swapped it with a tool running 500rpm instead of 5000rpm but the squeal remained. Checked a different tool spot with another tool running at 2000rpm and same thing so then tried an empty spot with no tool at all and same squeal still even as low as 1000rpm. have been running things a bit slower to get a feel for the live tooling so only been at 60-70% max load on the tools (ranging from 1/8" V bit for engraving to 5/8" end mill with helix path) and the squeal started after 3 hours of intermittent live tool use (live tools for an hour, regular turning for 20 minutes then back to live tools).

Any help with trouble shooting or disassembly tips/manuals would be very helpful. From my mechanic experience it sounds like its a shaft bearing and hoping to find the issue tomorrow so parts can be ordered or the service guys called when things open up again on Tuesday. Thank you very much for any help.

Do your tools have a drive gear ? It is possible the gear is binding with the turret drive gear causing heat. Check backlash/ gear play by rocking to tool back and forth after clamping the toolholder in the turret. There should be a little discernable free play in the teeth. Make sure the tool rotates freely without binding after clamping in the turret.

If the toolholder and tool has through tool coolant, make sure the plug is removed and the o ring is in good condition, if not it may wash grease out of the bearings, or fill the turret live tool drive with coolant.

[Silv3rDragon]

Do your tools have a drive gear ? It is possible the gear is binding with the turret drive gear causing heat. Check backlash/ gear play by rocking to tool back and forth after clamping the toolholder in the turret. There should be a little discernable free play in the teeth. Make sure the tool rotates freely without binding after clamping in the turret.

If the toolholder and tool has through tool coolant, make sure the plug is removed and the o ring is in good condition, if not it may wash grease out of the bearings, or fill the turret live tool drive with coolant.

The pictures are the tool holder that had the bearing going out last week(I assume thats what you call the part on the desk in front of the keyboard), and down in the turret where the tool holder is driven. The tool holders I am currently using feel good (the removed one in photos is a bit gritty on the bearing) and they do have a 1-2° back lash which my understanding is that its for easier alignment when the turret rotates through tool numbers so things dont crash internally. The noise testing is even coming from the empty tool slot (#8 in the 1st image) and sounds like its bearings in the turret itself on the live tooling drive shaft. By "gear play" are you talking about the flat slot drive lug in the 2nd image and the flat part that gets driven in the 4th image?

[Silv3rDragon]

Posted a response to a reply with this thread and then the thread disappeared, I would look into why but really need to get the machine back up and running so posting again what I had posted last night.

"2 months ago I was not a machinist and was working as a tech in the shop when my boss said "I want you to be a machinist now", to which I was excited. Been trying to learn everything on the fly (boss knows that too) so has been a hectic, but fun, couple of months, and I will do my best to describe things with limited proper terminology.

First off, I have been trying to look around for duty cycle of stuff to know for sure as I was informed by a coworker that it is 8 hours continuous at 100% and after searching a couple manuals for a while I put that on hold. If any of you know for sure and could point to where its at or at least the book its found in would be great.

The main issue is the turret developed a squeal while using the live tooling. 2 of our straight live tools went out a couple weeks ago and we sent them off to get new bearings put in. Last week another started to squeal and after stopping and seeing coolant steam coming off from the heat, I swapped it out too. Today it started squealing again so took the tool out but bearing felt good and it was not burning hot, only quite warm to the touch so I swapped it with a tool running 500rpm instead of 5000rpm but the squeal remained. Checked a different tool spot with another tool running at 2000rpm and same thing so then tried an empty spot with no tool at all and same squeal still even as low as 1000rpm. have been running things a bit slower to get a feel for the live tooling so only been at 60-70% max load on the tools (ranging from 1/8" V bit for engraving to 5/8" end mill with helix path) and the squeal started after 3 hours of intermittent live tool use (live tools for an hour, regular turning for 20 minutes then back to live tools).

Any help with trouble shooting or disassembly tips/manuals would be very helpful. From my mechanic experience it sounds like its a shaft bearing and hoping to find the issue tomorrow so parts can be ordered or the service guys called when things open up again on Tuesday. Thank you very much for any help."

Do your tools have a drive gear ? It is possible the gear is binding with the turret drive gear causing heat. Check backlash/ gear play by rocking to tool back and forth after clamping the toolholder in the turret. There should be a little discernable free play in the teeth. Make sure the tool rotates freely without binding after clamping in the turret.

If the toolholder and tool has through tool coolant, make sure the plug is removed and the o ring is in good condition, if not it may wash grease out of the bearings, or fill the turret live tool drive with coolant.

My response

"The pictures are the tool holder that had the bearing going out last week(I assume thats what you call the part on the desk in front of the keyboard), and down in the turret where the tool holder is driven. The tool holders I am currently using feel good (the removed one in photos is a bit gritty on the bearing) and they do have a 1-2° back lash which my understanding is that its for easier alignment when the turret rotates through tool numbers so things dont crash internally. The noise testing is even coming from the empty tool slot (#8 in the 4th image) and sounds like its bearings in the turret itself on the live tooling drive shaft. By "gear play" are you talking about the flat slot drive lug in the 3rd image and the flat part that gets driven in the 2nd image?"

[RaderSidetrack]

Posted a response to a reply with this thread and then the thread disappeared, I would look into why but really need to get the machine back up and running so posting again what I had posted last night.

What appears to have transpired is that you had (3) simultaneous threads on the same topic. Duplicate threads are a problem for everyone, so a moderator removed two duplicate threads per CNCZone standard practice. Somehow or other one of the removed threads had a reply. However, I recovered that and moved everything into this thread.

[servtech]

The pictures are the tool holder that had the bearing going out last week(I assume thats what you call the part on the desk in front of the keyboard), and down in the turret where the tool holder is driven. The tool holders I am currently using feel good (the removed one in photos is a bit gritty on the bearing) and they do have a 1-2° back lash which my understanding is that its for easier alignment when the turret rotates through tool numbers so things dont crash internally. The noise testing is even coming from the empty tool slot (#8 in the 1st image) and sounds like its bearings in the turret itself on the live tooling drive shaft. By "gear play" are you talking about the flat slot drive lug in the 2nd image and the flat part that gets driven in the 4th image?

Sorry, I missed the jpg's.

So clearly, there is no gear or through coolant as such. Just a drive keyway to engage the tool.

I think the toolholder bearing failure may be separate to the screeching noise you describe. If no tool on station and tool drive is screeching,the turret live tools bearings are probably faulty, so transmitting heat to the live tools causing them to overheat.

You need to investigate the turret driven tools drive shaft and bearings.

Do you have a drawing of the assembly?

[Jim Dawson]

I don't see any provision for lubricating the live tool drive system. Mine have grease zerks and get a couple of pumps each day during morning warm up.

Sounds like you have a bearing failure in the drive system. Bearings shouldn't squeak.

As far as duty cycle, it's 100%, but that assumes proper lubrication and maintenance.