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  1. #41
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    Yeah if Doosan never solves it, I start to look crazy advocating for solutions effecting the success of my 45 employees and their families don't I?

    Quitting is really what you are saying. Quitting isn't an option. The only option is the direction of a path to success.

    Early I think people thought this was a ladder issue. If there are smart people at Doosan (and I believe there are) they probably knew many months ago there was a major software issue here and that's where I look stupid because it took me a long time to understand that. Granted you have to realize I don't speak Korean so I got bits and pieces of information from our production manager third hand and have to patchwork quilt them together to try on my not solution end of the problem to try to figure out how to influence resolution.

    I'm really surprised that Doosan was OK with these issues to ship a machine, and I keep waiting for a resolution as a warranty customer on $500,000 worth of the effected equipment and I'm not seeing light in the tunnel, and I need to order more equipment ideally from the same company and also have that equipment help us operate it with less hand holding, and everyone here is frustrated at this point. The known issues are:

    1. No ability to import (put in old saved data)

    2. No ability to export (save out proved data)

    3. No ability to manually enter known or theoretical data (work around populate a single tool, or
    re-load manually from pictures an entire known proven and unable to be exported table)

    4. No ability to functionally operate "TEACH" function in dual path mode

    5. No ability to recognize a zero to cancel monitoring of a single axis or spindle

    6. No ability to teach a single tool that was skipped (or that skipped an individual desired axis population) in a teach process

    7 (machine ladder problem) when the machine hangs on account of tool load monitoring, the spindle and coolant should shut off on that path only. (I feel like 1/2 the hangs are erroneous and probably also related to software issues).

    8 (TOTALLY UNRELATED) The need of the machine to be given at odd times M264 and M265 to accomplish some mystery function involving the machine ladders gremlin issues.
    I guess maybe Doosan software engineers need to spend a little more time on the shop floor and less time behind their desks. It sounds like all of the complaints that you list are software issues that could be corrected by a software engineer visit to your facility. This is not going to be handled by a service tech.

    Back in the day when I was a field tech for a German machine manufacturer, if we had software issues that we couldn't solve via emails and phone calls, we would bring in one of the software engineers from the head office in Germany and sit them down in front of the machine until it was working to the customer satisfaction. The thinking was if the customer was going to spend $250K on a machine then it probably should work as expected, and of course the software corrections were then made the standard for the next machines.

    To start I would bring in your local Doosan sales rep and have a long chat.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    Let's look at this from an operator's standpoint and the burden it creates...

    In an environment where one operator has to run several machines this creates an overload of unnecessary added stress for them to deal with. On top of their normal duties, (i.e. tool load alarms...tool life count alarms...insert changes...tool offsets...measuring...production...) they are now tasked with interacting with pieces of equipment that simply do not function as intended. When you get erroneous tool load or break alarms that occur randomly, in some cases back to back to back to back, it simply makes it more difficult for them to do their jobs and function as needed. They stress over getting pulled from functioning machines to attend to issues that should not be there. At some point you have the "little boy that cried wolf" syndrome hit and you start taking them less seriously. That can be catastrophic. The loss of production combined with the nuisance of recovering and restarting the machine(s) should make this a #1 priority for any machine manufacturer to resolve. Let's face it...Doosan is selling these machines with these options so shouldn't they function as intended??? We all know that load monitoring on any manufacturer's machine can have it's flaws but these issues seem to be ongoing for far too long. If load monitoring alarms repeatedly occur in air with no tool contact, why offer load monitoring??? And for the response from several techs to be "nobody else uses load monitoring" just seems a bit far fetched to me. In a production environment we simply cannot have this added downtime to any machine on any shift... especially brand new equipment. That's my two cents...



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    I guess maybe Doosan software engineers need to spend a little more time on the shop floor and less time behind their desks. It sounds like all of the complaints that you list are software issues that could be corrected by a software engineer visit to your facility. This is not going to be handled by a service tech.

    Back in the day when I was a field tech for a German machine manufacturer, if we had software issues that we couldn't solve via emails and phone calls, we would bring in one of the software engineers from the head office in Germany and sit them down in front of the machine until it was working to the customer satisfaction. The thinking was if the customer was going to spend $250K on a machine then it probably should work as expected, and of course the software corrections were then made the standard for the next machines.

    To start I would bring in your local Doosan sales rep and have a long chat.
    I believe you are correct. The issues we have are just the way Tool load monitoring and programming does already work on the 31I TT1800SY II's this model is replacing. All we are asking for is normal function of Doosan's software to coincide with the field notes and manuals.

    Amid the bits and pieces we've heard the Doosan application people in New Jersey are being (apparently administratively) limited to possibly two days a week with showroom machines to try to understand and develop the solution to the problem, possibly throttling Doosan technical support in the USA to 40% of normal capabilities for customers nationwide. We're talking about people who support all the Doosan machines in the USA on every odd new integration or programming issue that occurs and who under normal circumstances, 5 days a week, are in very limited supply.

    Granted the New Jersey people I believe offer Doosan the ability to floor test software and ladder product at various stages of development (something we also can offer more like 60 hours a week, but that would then require Ellison to be supplied and to hand off the product in development), because as I understand it Korea works development on simulators, and New Jersey has actual machines on the floor and people capable of testing solutions in development in those machines. So Korea needs Doosan USA to test implementations in reality, but Korea is probably singularly responsible for coding of the software solution we need to resolve this.

    Ellison locally had a meeting about this Friday, but I think Ellison is just like us in this situation, getting beat up when they really aren't part of the team that will solve the problem. They are- like us- waiting for a solution to install. We heard possibly a senior application person was let go over poorly "pushing" problems to solution with new install machines in ways that have been frustrating all local sales engineers and customers. Fortunately Ellison had a senior app guy who is returning, so they are not understaffed, and might even be better equipped to help "push", communicate, and manage this issue to resolution.

    The only thing we have heard is possibly in May there is a plan to release an updated software. On our end we would like to see May pushed up to next week, because we have no reason to believe the May "rotation" will actually solve the problem, and we would like to get to the next iteration as rapidly as possible for as long as it takes to resolve this. In our limited experience, solutions to problems like this take something like 2-4 weeks of focused time, and this isn't just our 2 machines, it's Doosan's new product, so Doosan should care about making it successful.

    I have 12 Doosan machines. So far only one of them has been 100% theoretical efficiency and 100% functional nearly immediately in its floor life here with no issues to work out. That one is a five axis DVF-5000- a really impressive machine that installed really smoothly and we are very happy with it- it is a beast- rigid, fast, high RPM, smooth, quiet- PRODUCTIVE. The 31I TT1800SY II's we could fully integrate to completion in about 6 weeks. Puma 2100 SYII's took about 2-3 weeks, where the more recent 15" I series version Puma 2100SYII took about 3 months, and the first of these TT1800SYII's with the I series 15" is at 7 months and rolling (our worst floor integration to 100% complete time yet). The 15" I series TT1800SYII is preventing us from buying a machine right now. It is costing Doosan money well in excess of this pissant 11K$ we were supposed to be forced to save.

    I think taking problems seriously and making the solutions standard like you are saying was standard for the German company, would really help to reduce the floor integration time on these machines. We would love that.- that would mean we could buy a machine during a market condition, and expect to capitalize on that condition at 100% efficiency, with minimal service interruption contributing to down time and lost revenue on all the other machines, and actually try to pay it off with those conditions. It would help sell the machines.

    Last edited by Green0; 03-27-2021 at 03:50 PM.


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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    I got a fan failure on Spindle II on one of the Puma 2100's and realized right now 6 of 8 turning machines have active service requests. Two less than 2 year old pumas dropped out last 24 hours (blown actuator 2nd in a year on an odd lemon Puma 2100 [it's beginning to look like a lemon], and a fanuc subspindle motor fan fail on the other. Ideally we would be adding capacity right now, not losing it.

    I've heard a little more buzz that implies I series Plus will not be able to have the computing power to dual path teach. It is unknown whether that means we will never be able to teach single path in simultaneous machining which is the minimum requirement to allow safe machine TLM settup.

    Right now it requires an application level machinist to set up a twin path program in a strategic way to cut single path /teach single path, and crosses represent tools we can't hope to teach that way. It is dangerous to deconstruct a synchronized dual path program and strategically run certain operations to teach in single path mode during single path cutting. So we are having to force machinists to flirt with crashing machines to get their run offs in.



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    I got a fan failure on Spindle II on one of the Puma 2100's and realized right now 6 of 8 turning machines have active service requests. Two less than 2 year old pumas dropped out last 24 hours (blown actuator 2nd in a year on an odd lemon Puma 2100 [it's beginning to look like a lemon], and a fanuc subspindle motor fan fail on the other. Ideally we would be adding capacity right now, not losing it.

    I've heard a little more buzz that implies I series Plus will not be able to have the computing power to dual path teach. It is unknown whether that means we will never be able to teach single path in simultaneous machining which is the minimum requirement to allow safe machine TLM settup.

    That's crazy. With modern industrial computers, computing power and memory should never be an issue, this isn't the 90's.

    I'm actually in the market for a mill/turn sub-spindle machine to eliminate our second operation tasks, one of your TT1800SYII's would be a perfect fit. I think you should just drag one out the door and ship it to me for proper disposal. I would just remove anything that says Fanuc on it and replace those parts with my own controls and be done with the problems. Wouldn't be the first time I've done this. I have a very low tolerance for controls that don't work the way I want them to.

    Seriously, I would be having a chat with my lawyer by this point. Maybe DMG-Mori would be a better choice.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Member DouglasR's Avatar
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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    As a former Doosan employee, I can tell you that the difference between the "i" (really an optioned up 0 control) and the 31/30 is more than just a few gadgets. There's a huge processor difference, and many of the other functions in the upper series CNCs are way beyond the "i".

    The whole reason for the 0i was to counter the staggering cost of controls. In standard type machining situations, it functions well enough. However when things like multi path processing, and external software functions are added in, the 0's lack of power becomes apparent.

    Ellison has quite a bit of "pull" with Doosan HQ in NJ, so we can hope that the software revisions will help. They (Doosan) are already pushing the touch screen HMI version of the plus control, and, apparently, Manual Guide i is even more integrated into the Fanuc software. All nice, if it can work.

    My advice is to "stay on" Ellison and Doosan. Doosan HQ in NJ has been throttled back by management to only a few days a week, at least until summer. So in order to maintain priority, I would stay in contact with Ellison.



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    They said look you're going to save $11,000. I remember saying, I'd rather pay $14,000 for a 31I and peace of mind. Like all new machine customers, the reason to buy is a production requirement. The only way to fulfill is to drop in a solution that rapidly functions to fulfill capacity issues. 8 months isn't rapid. And the machine isn't able to operate to purchased and expressed capacity.

    The crazy thing is that somewhere in a room, intelligent people liked this as a solution.

    I called the Fanuc regional manager, got voicemail and walked out on the floor. The $264,000 machine is washing the window- stalled on m35. M135. Green light doing nothing but running 50% recommended duty cycle live spindles in the air because it doesn't want to read two lines of code at the same time consistently.
    Attachment 459678
    I have a question - I noticed that EZ Guide i is active. Is it necessary? Do you program that way?



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    Quote Originally Posted by DouglasR View Post
    I have a question - I noticed that EZ Guide i is active. Is it necessary? Do you program that way?
    We trained everyone on the floor for Manual guide I on Fanuc machines from another brand. When we bought Doosans we used Easy guide (Doosan's look alike module) to maintain uniformity and ease of operating the machines. Certain things like a Y axis offset table are able to be easily accessed in EASY/Manual guide mode where in old Fanuc they require more button presses and less run data like loads are visible on the main screen.



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    That's crazy. With modern industrial computers, computing power and memory should never be an issue, this isn't the 90's.

    I'm actually in the market for a mill/turn sub-spindle machine to eliminate our second operation tasks, one of your TT1800SYII's would be a perfect fit. I think you should just drag one out the door and ship it to me for proper disposal. I would just remove anything that says Fanuc on it and replace those parts with my own controls and be done with the problems. Wouldn't be the first time I've done this. I have a very low tolerance for controls that don't work the way I want them to.

    Seriously, I would be having a chat with my lawyer by this point. Maybe DMG-Mori would be a better choice.

    Trust me we've been strongly thinking about remedies. These aren't great problems to have. We can't even run all our former 31I programs safely anymore. So we literally traded in a machine for a new machine with less capability under the premise of more capability.



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    We had a new version of TLM come in today. It kind of seems like a tease to us. There wasn't a lot of substance to the update.

    We gained ability to import and export.

    We still have these problems:

    3. No ability to manually enter known or theoretical data (work around populate a single tool, or
    re-load manually from pictures an entire known proven and unable to be exported table) This remains not supported.

    4. No ability to functionally operate "TEACH" function in dual path mode (we compromised this bullet- we said all we need to do is teach single path in simultaneous (or normal) program cutting.) We tested today and we cannot teach single path in normal program cutting. About 30% of axis and spindle loads were missed in this test.

    5. No ability to recognize a zero to cancel monitoring of a single axis or spindle (we still have an issue of no recognition of zeros as canceling monitoring of a spindle or axis. - this is especially important when M264 and M265 fail to keep the machine from looking at the wrong spindle that is not involved in cutting with that particular monitored tool. At this point we have lost that tool for monitoring purposes or if we hardline the need for safety, we have lost the ability to run the machine or at least that program. )

    6. No ability to teach a single tool that was skipped (or that skipped an individual desired axis population) in a teach process This remains un-available.

    7 (machine ladder problem) when the machine hangs on account of tool load monitoring, the spindle and coolant should shut off on that path only. (I feel like 1/2 the hangs are erroneous and probably also related to software issues). Coolant and spindle still remain running after break value is achieved.

    8 (TOTALLY UNRELATED) The need of the machine to be given at odd times M264 and M265 to accomplish some mystery function involving the machine ladders gremlin issues. We tried the codes today, they weren't helpful for getting TLM to watch the correct side of the machine. There was no ladder work done today, so this is probably un-touched.



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    In all my yrs working with many Fanuc controlled machines i never got this to work
    What i did do was use a Marco toll life program and ran its tool up to destruction meaning it was becoming erratic in size or surface finish and backed it off 20 percent at value and never had a issue -------Material or Coolant issues or machine condition or even tool construction can drop you back that 20 percent but this is how i set tool life and ran the shop for yrs even under robotic loading and lights out



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    Quote Originally Posted by lshingleton View Post
    In all my yrs working with many Fanuc controlled machines i never got this to work
    What i did do was use a Marco toll life program and ran its tool up to destruction meaning it was becoming erratic in size or surface finish and backed it off 20 percent at value and never had a issue -------Material or Coolant issues or machine condition or even tool construction can drop you back that 20 percent but this is how i set tool life and ran the shop for yrs even under robotic loading and lights out
    I get your point that tool life can promote stability. That won't account for insert inconsistency or bad material - voids- inclusions that may occur in stock rarely. That won't allow safe background development of tool life in a multi-machine cell. (these are two seperate safety parachutes), the life when properly developed and backed off 20% (same strategy here) catches 80% of tool failures (something we learned through Yama Seiki use before we implemented tool load monitoring), and tool load monitoring when properly set up will catch 90% of other issues that happen sporadically inside the 20% of end of life envelope, and will open greater ease of developing your tool life numbers with some relative safety. So you can reduce tool failures to about 2% of normal un-tracked operation. That's a phenomenal time savings when you consider a tool loss on night shift may lose you 6 hours and take 3 hours of focus in the morning away from other forward motion on settup or operation. So if you are experiencing 6 hours lost time with TLF and TLM active and operational, you would have been losing 300 hours without it. You're also trashing your equipment with 50 times the number of unintentional operational contingencies (minor to major crashes). This strategy is better for Doosan, better for Ellison and better for customers and employees.

    We used both in conjunction on our older Doosan machines less than 7 years old (now with the 31I we traded off less than 5 years old), and we have had 100% success before these machines. The buyer who bought the 2013 TT1800SY said his shop ran their TT1800SY's on tool life and tool load monitoring simultaneously.

    We have manufacturing partners on Eurotech "elite" machines that use tool life and tool load monitoring. They swear by it as we do. Our former Yama Seiki machines had tool life and tool load monitoring that functionally worked. DMG has both. Nakamura Tome has both and even has automated wear offsets and layered employee performance monitoring by shift. Okuma has both and an extra control processor to handle the functions. The swiss people get further into it and put piezo sensors on all the axis structures and do a more successful version of tool load monitoring that way. If you don't have functional tool life and functional tool load monitoring today, you are not a competitive brand in bar fed turning machines.

    These features effect spindle optimization and turnover speed aggressively.

    Last edited by Green0; 04-21-2021 at 04:48 PM.


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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    I worked for a company for over 30 yrs with 10,000 plus CNC with many different fanuc controls and to be honest after many yrs trying i called it a day and will never use load monitoring or tool measuring or camera detection again -Just not worth the investment in time or money --------------Maybe one day it will work but just way to many variables to be honest -Good luck



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    Quote Originally Posted by lshingleton View Post
    I worked for a company for over 30 yrs with 10,000 plus CNC with many different fanuc controls and to be honest after many yrs trying i called it a day and will never use load monitoring or tool measuring or camera detection again -Just not worth the investment in time or money --------------Maybe one day it will work but just way to many variables to be honest -Good luck
    It's on the brochure as a standard feature. It's important not to forget that.

    We have tool load monitoring on 10 other Doosan machines- 4 of them are mills one is the same model TT1800SY with the formerly offered 31I control. The only machines it isn't fully functioning properly on are the newest pair of turning machines. We previously used it on the Yama Seiki machines here successfully. When we bought it for Yama Seiki's (it was special order $7000 per control) we bought it because we had a couple of incidents that scared operators that weren't eliminated by tool life alone. Monitoring reduced those issues to nearly zero and kept the machines running.

    When we bought our first Puma 2100 SY II, we were strongly considering a Tsugami MS08Y, (it offered $22,000 in fully outfitted savings). Then we discovered that they didn't have in control tool load monitoring (the smaller fanuc screen OI-TF doesn't support it) and we bought the Puma 2100SY II instead. Morris offered us the crazy Rem-sales swiss piezo monitoring system for a heavy, heavy discount, but we didn't want a system that required a bunch of special programming to get monitoring up. We wanted something we could kipware convert Yama code to the new machine, and just find and replace the TLM on and off codes. That lost Tsugami 4 machine sales of Y axis subspindle single turret machines alone.

    I wouldn't own most of our Doosan machines if Doosan didn't have a functional load monitoring software on board in the control at that time. We would only own our first TT1800SY and Doosan would have lost 11 machine sales over it. (one of our machines our Lynx 220LYSC was a used machine so it doesn't count as a sale for Doosan)



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    I put the Macro tool life programs into the controls and and left as i stated in other comment and some ran for yrs and no cost and no down time lost --------Servos change and machine controls even change over time as there is some glitches in Fanuc if not programmed around can occur with time -----------Reactions of the control and especially using look ahead functions can cause this -------Whats the Servo change over one year ?------Linear way deterioration -----Lubrication system running or maintained -----Drive hardware just so so many and if you have money use it i just gave up and never used it again



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    Quote Originally Posted by lshingleton View Post
    I put the Macro tool life programs into the controls and and left as i stated in other comment and some ran for yrs and no cost and no down time lost --------Servos change and machine controls even change over time as there is some glitches in Fanuc if not programmed around can occur with time -----------Reactions of the control and especially using look ahead functions can cause this -------Whats the Servo change over one year ?------Linear way deterioration -----Lubrication system running or maintained -----Drive hardware just so so many and if you have money use it i just gave up and never used it again
    We have run 5 years on tool life and load monitoring and have backed a lot of tools out of holes and off diameters that have been stopped when the insert corner has just blown. Every time you do that, it's an example of a tool holder you saved, and it saves a bunch of time and keeps the guys from feeling like all the machines are just going to burn in at any moment.

    When you have tool load monitoring working on a machine, it works on that machine for the life of the machine. So all it requires is a builder that is of the caliber to actually make it work to the sold specification, and then you have a great system every time you buy a machine.

    We had another visit, and they got the ladder modified to allow the machine to stop the spindle and stop coolant when the machine has feed held itself after a break value is achieved. The modification also dropped out the B indicator on the software which needs to be fixed. I got to see some of the dialogue being sent to Doosan and was able to realize my apps guy was sort of the broken link in the telephone game on at least the conversation I was looking at. Unfortunately I don't think Doosan wants any communication directly from us, though we are sending it to the ladder engineer and others directly and CC'ing the apps guy.

    We are still cross path communicating with the lower able to send a M201 to the upper at times, (evidence more ladder work needs to happen to get to a more perfect ladder), and we still can't teach at least one path at a time in normal simultaneous operation on these new I series plus TT1800SY II's. The software still doesn't recognize a zero and stop looking at the axis or spindle in which the operator has put a zero in the field- which means there is no way to get a tool to work if the tool is cross path communicating loads from the spindle it is cutting on, and one across the cabinet that it isn't cutting on.

    I'm still waiting for Doosan to fix these to buy more TT1800SY II's.


    I had a problem tonight at 5:10PM with Spindle orientation on a Lynx 220 LYSC and I got part of the solution from an Ellison apps guy from the Illinois branch (Thanks Joe), and the rest of the solution from an Apps guy who Ellison fired (Thanks Gil). My local guy couldn't be reached and probably didn't know the answer anyway.

    My 4034 parameter value wasn't matching the parameter value in the blue book for the machine. The 4034 parameter is the synchronous spindle orientation shift. If it is off, 0 degrees on G54 won't be 0 degrees on G55 after the transfer.

    I was told also the way to unrelated adjust C orientation on sub which is apparently parameter 4077 S3 which is on path 2 or hidden page 2 which is acquired by pushing the machine alarm reset button and simultaneously spindle stop while on the parameter page. S3 is the sub C orientation which is a 4096 = 360 degree relationship where 11.37 is one degree. in my case I was 889 out or 78.118 degrees out of the Sync value in 4034.

    That was fortunate because the control was acting strange and pressing alarm reset and spindle stop was flashing to path 2 and then to another screen so it wasn't working right. So I was lucky my 4034 path 1 value was my problem I needed to fix or I would have been playing battleship with the program code to try to fix the angle by trial and error.

    I was instructed DO NOT CHANGE S2- S2 is the live tool orientation and obviously if you want the turret to index properly you don't want that to be wrong. That is our only used machine now, and it is an example of why used machines can be an issue- the previous owner obviously monkeyed with 4034. Amazingly this is the first part with oriented milled features on P11 and P13 we've run in it, so we just discovered this and fixed it.



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    When you run CNC shops with over 250 Machines and sometime batches of 10 in one cell you get pretty sick ruuning back and forward resetting them every time a load monitor went off -Its all in perspective



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    Quote Originally Posted by lshingleton View Post
    When you run CNC shops with over 250 Machines and sometime batches of 10 in one cell you get pretty sick ruuning back and forward resetting them every time a load monitor went off -Its all in perspective
    We're on the low side of volume for TT1800SY production from what I hear. Our runs are ~200 to ~15,000 parts. Some of the shops running these are running 40,000 part runs, and having Ellison actually turnkey the jobs for them, because they don't have anyone who puts jobs in the machines, and only have the machines to bid huge jobs that go in quarterly or every half year or so.

    We probably average about 1200 parts in a run- jobs that run 5, 24 hour days. On the higher side, at 15,000 parts, the machine might run that job for 7 weeks of 24 hour days. It takes about 6-8 hours to get load monitoring really smooth, and of course you can save the table for the next production run. If you are setting up a twin turret machine for 1-2 days to run 10 parts, you're not the average customer.

    When load monitoring is working to specification and running smooth, about 30% of the time it tells you something happened, something did, and it saved you from something that would end the shift and cause you to lose 8 hours of time the machine could be running. The other 2 resets for erroneous stuff are going to cost you at best 10 minutes, so your losing 10 minutes to save 8 hours. All the guys running the machines here want load monitoring running and running right.

    When it's running right, we'll often get through 5,000 parts without losing one holder, and without experiencing more than 10 minutes of down time. Uptime is important to making rate on the machines. We're also spending about $180,000 a year on carbide tooling. The cost of the carbide is heavily related to how good the tool life and load monitoring are at allowing you to get the life safely out of your carbide without promoting expensive down time.

    Last edited by Green0; 05-08-2021 at 04:15 PM.


  19. #59
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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    One machine in one cell had 2.5 Million components for 8 Speed Transmission 2 yrs no alarms not stoppage and many more -----Make it simple it runs but im getting older now and really have had enough of productions gimmicks and trials of the yrs from vision systems to tooling touch probes and eyes and really everyone of them fail badly and wernt worth the time and effort ----------Most engineers forget the actual environment machines run in and its not a QA lab thats for sure -Good luck and hopefully you never have to lift a pallet from a machine through its top ATC door as the tool forgot its settings and banna peeled very large reamer and fuse welded itself to the fixture !!!



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    Default Re: 15" OI TT1800SY

    Quote Originally Posted by lshingleton View Post
    One machine in one cell had 2.5 Million components for 8 Speed Transmission 2 yrs no alarms not stoppage and many more -----Make it simple it runs but im getting older now and really have had enough of productions gimmicks and trials of the yrs from vision systems to tooling touch probes and eyes and really everyone of them fail badly and wernt worth the time and effort ----------Most engineers forget the actual environment machines run in and its not a QA lab thats for sure -Good luck and hopefully you never have to lift a pallet from a machine through its top ATC door as the tool forgot its settings and banna peeled very large reamer and fuse welded itself to the fixture !!!
    I'm still trying to get my new under warranty machines to be serviced to the point of running to pre-sale advertised specifications. It's great if you hate technology and run great without it, but it has nothing to do with Doosan needing to fix these problems for all the rest of us who depend on technology for stability in materials like 17-4 stainless which cut great most of the time (emphasis on most of the time). The load monitor also safeties unreliable stuff like Chipblaster high pressure coolant systems that have float valves that fail, and dump solenoids that get stuck, and PLC's that fail. If you lose coolant, the machine's safety net is load monitoring. The lack of coolant will spike a load the monitoring can feed hold, and prevent the inevitable tool failure that will happen from happening.

    That might also prevent the turret from getting kicked and a service call from needing to happen. Inversely that may happen in lieu of this, after the new under warranty equipment is damaged because the software wasn't supplied functionally and wasn't serviced. So it has a purpose- that's why it exists, and why all the competitive brands in CNC turning machines have a product they use to sell the machine to normal customers who like technology and depend on it.

    We're actually using the monitoring to some limited success right now on even these screwed up new machines, but we are essentially fighting to get all the tools monitored because we don't run on luck in this shop. We run on good machines which were always sold by Doosan until these two which are not nearly as good for these reasons.

    We actually were told this move to I series plus was for thermal compensation because Fanuc penalizes their good customers like Doosan on 31I with heavy fees, and we've had to shut thermal comp off because it began acting up. The Doosan turning thermal compensation can't handle air movement like an air conditioning unit. Shop air flow makes the machine think that the casting is changing size.



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